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[mainiac]

and slowly and subtly change publicly published statistics as to crime while keeping secret ones that seriously never show anyone, and make it appear in all cases whenever possible that when a crime is committed, the perpetrator is always caught.

So in the name of public safety, sacrifice the public's right to know what the government is doing?

[FearfulJesuit]

and slowly and subtly change publicly published statistics as to crime while keeping secret ones that seriously never show anyone, and make it appear in all cases whenever possible that when a crime is committed, the perpetrator is always caught.

So in the name of public safety, sacrifice the public's right to know what the government is doing?

Fact of the matter is, if you have a system that has strong rights for the accused and arrested (as the US would have, if it actually took the 4th, 5th and 6th amendments seriously), you're going to have a sizable number of people who commit crimes and don't end up convicted or even charged. I don't see a way around this, really. A continuous undercurrent of petty and sometimes not-so-petty crime is the price you pay for not having to put up with totalitarianism.

[BurnedToast]

Oh hey, the bundies've been arrested, and only one person's died so far. Few others got arrested, too, apparently. No clue how many are left, or what they're doing.

Spoiler: FBI release, I think? (click to show/hide)

I would have preferred it had been completely bloodless so the inevitable "ebil gubmint tyranny!!!!" nutjobs would have even less ground to stand on, but lavoy finicum (the man killed) had a deathwish and is on record saying he'd rather die than be arrested so it's not surprising.

The amusing part about all this is if convicted, they are now felons and can't legally own guns anymore. I wonder if they considered that at all before they went off on this half-assed adventure?

[Dorsidwarf]

Bbc news said the dead man was killed in a shootout at the patrol stop where they were arrested.

[smjjames]

Oh hey, the bundies've been arrested, and only one person's died so far. Few others got arrested, too, apparently. No clue how many are left, or what they're doing.

Spoiler: FBI release, I think? (click to show/hide)

I would have preferred it had been completely bloodless so the inevitable "ebil gubmint tyranny!!!!" nutjobs would have even less ground to stand on, but lavoy finicum (the man killed) had a deathwish and is on record saying he'd rather die than be arrested so it's not surprising.

The amusing part about all this is if convicted, they are now felons and can't legally own guns anymore. I wonder if they considered that at all before they went off on this half-assed adventure?

Eh, with gun laws as they are, they can find some way around it and get guns through another channel.

[BurnedToast]

Oh hey, the bundies've been arrested, and only one person's died so far. Few others got arrested, too, apparently. No clue how many are left, or what they're doing.

Spoiler: FBI release, I think? (click to show/hide)

I would have preferred it had been completely bloodless so the inevitable "ebil gubmint tyranny!!!!" nutjobs would have even less ground to stand on, but lavoy finicum (the man killed) had a deathwish and is on record saying he'd rather die than be arrested so it's not surprising.

The amusing part about all this is if convicted, they are now felons and can't legally own guns anymore. I wonder if they considered that at all before they went off on this half-assed adventure?

Eh, with gun laws as they are, they can find some way around it and get guns through another channel.

Of course they can, but not legally.

I highly doubt it will stop them from actually owning guns, but it will make it less convenient and if they are ever caught doing something stupid with a gun again, things are going to be a whole lot worse for them.

[RedKing]

These are people who don't think the law applies to them in the first place, I'm pretty sure they're not concerned with obeying Federal firearms laws.

EDIT: Livestream of the militants, by the militants, for the militants. Comedy. Fucking. Gold. So far, it's been mostly them working out the order in which their people will go poop. And yes, they use the word "poop".

[SirQuiamus]

These are people who don't think the law applies to them in the first place, I'm pretty sure they're not concerned with obeying Federal firearms laws.

EDIT: Livestream of the militants, by the militants, for the militants. Comedy. Fucking. Gold. So far, it's been mostly them working out the order in which their people will go poop. And yes, they use the word "poop".

Nothing much going on right now.

Why are they guarding that excavator? Are the Gubmint Mexicans trying to steal it?

E:
FREE TEH HAMMONDS FREE THE BUNDIES FREE TEH PEEPLE

E₂:
lol wtf, coyotees??

E₃:
FYNAL STAHNND

[RedKing]

I think it's supposed to be cover. No one will spot them, cleverly camouflaged against a bright yellow piece of machinery.

It's actually kinda poignant, seeing the realization slowly creeping in that none of the other militias are coming to save them. Already heard them grumbling about how "Idaho should have already been here". The lady there was talking to a reporter about what they want done with their remains, including their dogs (which are locked in a garage at the refuge, apparently). So yeah....they're looking for a Waco 2.0, it would appear.

Apparently, the revolution WILL be televised, it'll just be boring as fuck.


EDIT: I missed it, but apparently earlier the scrawny looking dude with the porn stache was talking about how commercial milk has an additive put in it by the jews that run the government that turns kids trans/gay.

[SirQuiamus]

It's actually kinda poignant, seeing the realization slowly creeping in that none of the other militias are coming to save them. Already heard them grumbling about how "Idaho should have already been here".

So they've been chatting with a bunch of alt-right twitter trolls with animu avatars, and now they're earnestly waiting for the cavalry to arrive?

...'tis poignant indeed. :<

EDIT:
I BROUGHT MY TAXES FORM WITH ME THAT... WHATEVER TAXES THING

[RedKing]

Looks like the stream is down now.

[hector13]

Perhaps they realised broadcasting what they were doing, as well as numbers and equipment, was tactically quite unsound. Evidently they miss the GLORIOUS LEADERSHIP of Mr. Bundy.

Do you think they're upset that Bundy didn't go out in a blaze of glory, guns firing and all that nonsense? I mean that was pretty much the point, wasn't it?

[nenjin]

Well so much for a peaceful resolution to this. I am curious what the circumstances of the shooting were. They're claiming he had his hands up when the cops blew him away. So I'm withholding my real reaction (which you can probably guess) until the police make a statement about how the shooting occurred.

[RedKing]

I think it's more that technical skills are not their forte. I understand their reasoning for the livestream -- they expect the Feds to shoot first and be brutal when they show up and want proof of that. For that, I commend them and hope they continue streaming so that we avoid any of this "FINICUM WAS MURDERED IN COLD BLOOD WITH HIS HANDS UP" bullshit I'm already seeing. (FWIW, I hope the Feds and state police involved in that had bodycams and dashcams on).

But yeah, it's tactically unsound. Doesn't seem to be a lot of leadership involved. I think they thought they were going to be emulating the minutemen at Lexington and Concord, or (more aptly) the rebels that occupied Ft. Sumter -- the match that strikes fire to the tinder. But apparently, the rest of the militias have decided to swipe left on being the tinder.

I'm betting that there was a lot of encouragement by the Armchair Brigade, a lot of "Hell yeah man, you guys do this, we'll be right there with you!" and then it's turned out to be all asshat, no cattle.


Stream appears to be back up. The saga of Fort Caterpillar continues.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I'm torn, frankly. It's hardly past cops to straight up murder a surrendering person, they do it all the time. On the other hand, we know that this guy more or less declared he was going to fight to the death, which is not a justification for killing him if he was surrendering but could mean he didn't actually try to surrender at all.