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Author Topic: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée  (Read 1570193 times)

Reelya

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Re: Ted Cruz's Adult Coloring Book and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #9825 on: January 19, 2016, 03:30:12 pm »

It's a good thing there aren't many Mexicans working in the construction industry. Trump's contractors only hire good honest white construction workers.

Bauglir

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Re: Ted Cruz's Adult Coloring Book and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #9826 on: January 19, 2016, 03:33:19 pm »

He's also said about a 35% tax, which sounds really extreme.
Just to make sure, that's a 35% corporate income tax that he's recommending? Because that's not extreme at all, and currently Federal taxes go up to 39% at the top brackets. What you have to realize is that this doesn't amount to much because of the huge variety of deductible things and other ways to shield income from taxation, not all of which have to do with outsourcing.

Of course, if he's proposing 35% as a flat tax, that is insane, because it'd be crippling to small businesses that currently sit in the lower brackets and can't afford to loophole their way into lower payments.
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In the days when Sussman was a novice, Minsky once came to him as he sat hacking at the PDP-6.
“What are you doing?”, asked Minsky. “I am training a randomly wired neural net to play Tic-Tac-Toe” Sussman replied. “Why is the net wired randomly?”, asked Minsky. “I do not want it to have any preconceptions of how to play”, Sussman said.
Minsky then shut his eyes. “Why do you close your eyes?”, Sussman asked his teacher.
“So that the room will be empty.”
At that moment, Sussman was enlightened.

Rolan7

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Re: Ted Cruz's Adult Coloring Book and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #9827 on: January 19, 2016, 03:39:36 pm »

Would be pretty interested in knowing how much of the labor he outsources to other countries in his own businesses too.
I don't know about his service and real estate stuff, but he did get called out on his clothing line back in 2012.  While on David Letterman:

http://truth-out.org/buzzflash/commentary/donald-trump-promises-to-bring-jobs-back-from-china-while-having-his-trump-ties-made-there/19513-donald-trump-promises-to-bring-jobs-back-from-china-while-having-his-trump-ties-made-there

Heh, gotta love descriptive URLS.
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She/they
No justice: no peace.
Quote from: Fallen London, one Unthinkable Hope
This one didn't want to be who they was. On the Surface – it was a dull, unconsidered sadness. But everything changed. Which implied everything could change.

smjjames

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Re: Ted Cruz's Adult Coloring Book and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #9828 on: January 19, 2016, 03:43:54 pm »

Surprised nobody has started hitting him on that, not that his supporters would believe the accusations anyway.

At the very least, it'll probably come up in the general.
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Reelya

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Re: Ted Cruz's Adult Coloring Book and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #9829 on: January 19, 2016, 04:31:10 pm »

He's also said about a 35% tax, which sounds really extreme.
Just to make sure, that's a 35% corporate income tax that he's recommending?

It's not a tax rate at all. He wants to impose 35% import tariffs on goods "such as Apple's iPhone".

The problem is that almost all the manufacturing costs of the iPhone are from making the components, not assembly. If the tariff just covers final assembly it will bring only a few jobs back to the USA. So, the question is are electronic components going to be all hit with a tariff, and how can the government keep up with component development? It's impossible.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2016, 04:39:36 pm by Reelya »
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RedKing

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Re: Ted Cruz's Adult Coloring Book and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #9830 on: January 19, 2016, 04:38:27 pm »

Sweet. Trade Wars won't just be an old BBS game anymore...
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Remember, knowledge is power. The power to make other people feel stupid.
Quote from: Neil DeGrasse Tyson
Science is like an inoculation against charlatans who would have you believe whatever it is they tell you.

Reelya

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Re: Ted Cruz's Adult Coloring Book and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #9831 on: January 19, 2016, 04:47:10 pm »

But you know what, a small tariff on imported "consumer" goods that's not meted out on "components" could in fact sneak semi-skilled jobs back to the USA, and in a way that wouldn't pollute the USA to hell. The easiest way to track that would be to say that if you can show X% of your production costs were U.S. labor then you get exemptions from the tariff.

Trying to have the USA have the entire production pipeline for every component in the iPhone would be an economic and environmental disaster.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2016, 04:50:13 pm by Reelya »
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wobbly

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Re: Ted Cruz's Adult Coloring Book and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #9832 on: January 19, 2016, 04:49:23 pm »

I'm starting to almost wish he wins, just to see him have to make real decisions, pass them through a real congress etc. etc. Of course I'll be building my bunker to watch it all from a safe distance...
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FearfulJesuit

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Re: Ted Cruz's Adult Coloring Book and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #9833 on: January 19, 2016, 04:49:28 pm »

He's also said about a 35% tax, which sounds really extreme.
Just to make sure, that's a 35% corporate income tax that he's recommending?

It's not a tax rate at all. He wants to impose 35% import tariffs on goods "such as Apple's iPhone".

The problem is that almost all the manufacturing costs of the iPhone are from making the components, not assembly. If the tariff just covers final assembly it will bring only a few jobs back to the USA. So, the question is are electronic components going to be all hit with a tariff, and how can the government keep up with component development? It's impossible.

Don't you see that we're going to make America great again by going back to the Gilded Age? We'll have a captain of industry at the helm, return to a paradise where the ethnics and womenfolk know their place, and spend most of our political capital bickering about tariffs.
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@Footjob, you can microwave most grains I've tried pretty easily through the microwave, even if they aren't packaged for it.

Loud Whispers

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Re: Ted Cruz's Adult Coloring Book and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #9834 on: January 19, 2016, 04:57:19 pm »

Aw yeah, we Empire of Tuvalu wen

Strife26

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Re: Ted Cruz's Adult Coloring Book and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #9835 on: January 19, 2016, 05:05:24 pm »

I'd be reasonably willing to vote for a captain of industry. Our good friend Donald is, however, no captain of industry.
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RedKing

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Re: Ted Cruz's Adult Coloring Book and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #9836 on: January 19, 2016, 05:05:34 pm »

But you know what, a small tariff on imported "consumer" goods that's not meted out on "components" could in fact sneak semi-skilled jobs back to the USA, and in a way that wouldn't pollute the USA to hell. The easiest way to track that would be to say that if you can show X% of your production costs were U.S. labor then you get exemptions from the tariff.

Possibly. But is it going to be a blanket 35% import tariff, so targeted against specific countries? If it's just against China, Apple will move production outlets to Vietnam (or even just export the finished components from China to Vietnam and then import them from Vietnam to dodge the tariff).

If it's a blanket tariff, we're going to have to pull out of a gazillion free trade agreements and treaties and basically tell the WTO to go fuck itself, at which point WTO says "Ok, American copyrights are no longer internationally protected."

Also, agricultural exports will get slapped with retaliatory tariffs. There's several ag industries that would be hit hard (pork, tobacco, wheat, corn). Might make those commodities cheaper in the short-run, but will kill off smaller producers.
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Remember, knowledge is power. The power to make other people feel stupid.
Quote from: Neil DeGrasse Tyson
Science is like an inoculation against charlatans who would have you believe whatever it is they tell you.

redwallzyl

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Re: Ted Cruz's Adult Coloring Book and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #9837 on: January 19, 2016, 05:14:21 pm »

http://www.npr.org/2016/01/19/463633573/sarah-palin-endorses-donald-trump

 :P vice president Palin incoming. truly the most perfect pairing.
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Amperzand

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Re: Ted Cruz's Adult Coloring Book and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #9838 on: January 19, 2016, 05:14:44 pm »

kill off smaller producers.

Well, I mean, that's the goal. :V
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Muh FG--OOC Thread
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Is there a word that combines comedy with tragedy and farce?
Heiterverzweiflung. Not a legit German word so much as something a friend and I made up in German class once. "Carefree despair". When life is so fucked that you can't stop laughing.
http://www.collinsdictionary.com

wierd

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Re: Ted Cruz's Adult Coloring Book and Chill 2016 Megathread
« Reply #9839 on: January 19, 2016, 05:14:57 pm »

If you ask me, the better solution is not exactly tariffs (though they do have their place, they almost definately end up being used inappropriately. The import tariff on sugar being a noteworthy example.) but instead improved labor law.

You know, coming down hard and saying "look bitches, You are abusing the @#$% out of H1B visas. Those are not intended to give you access to an endless sea of foreign laborers at low low prices. They are intended to bring skilled labor to the US, which you then pay going local market rate for." as well as "No, you don't get to outsource 99% of your workforce to bumfuckistan and still call yourself an american company making american jobs."

That, coupled with stronger controls concerning international accounting practices (No, We WONT accept that your money is fungible. You WILL keep separate ledgers for all sales and transactions conducted with US citizens, and you WILL pay appropriate taxation on that ledger, etc, and if you dont, we will fine the living shit out of you until you do.) would go a very long way.

Much of the problems in the US concerning skilled labor and manufacturing jobs comes from the simple fact that the US Economy is so much more powerful than other countries, meaning the same skill sets in other countries are far more inexpensive than here, because the costs of living here are much higher here.  Other ancillary factors are environmental protection costs (you can't just dump industrial waste into a river and be done with it, like china does) and increased power of NIMBYisms. (Yes, getting a US steel mill would be great for chicago and detroit, but where are you going to build it!? All that smoke, and noise! Oh my!)

To make "America great again", then the middle class needs to be expanded again. This is exactly counter to the goals of pretty much any major international corporation, which makes most of its profits by exploiting disparities in global economies. EG-- Hiring the Indian IT guys in Bangalore to run the tech support center, instead of american school kids, because they cost factions of the dollar. These international companies are international for a reason, yo.  They hold assets in multiple countries for a reason yo. That reason is NOT to make life better for middle class people by enriching them financially through quality employment remuneration. It is to further enrich themselves and their stock holders, by basically exploiting and defrauding these middle class people, and keeping the increases from improved manufacturing and process improvements all to themselves, then sheltering that profit through international tax schemes.

This direct disparity between what is actually necessary for america to be great again(tm), and what Trump and Co are likely to attempt, is why I just can't take the man seriously, even when I try very hard to, out of fairness.

America had its "gilded age" when it was on the profiting side of trade tariffs, labor exploitation, etc-- and industrial giants had a vested interest in improving the local labor force over enabling foriegn labor forces, to maintain that dominance.  -- The status quo has changed, and now industrial giants want to maximize foriegn labor pools because they are significantly less expensive to make use of, but still want to suck money out of rich american wallets.  The resulting trend has been the massive contraction of the american middle class, the rise of the 1%, and a terribly lethargic american economy.

To make america great again, Trump is going to have to piss off basically every multinational company on the planet, by telling them that they cant do that anymore.

It will never happen.
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