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[TheBiggerFish]

WHAT is a BEARCAT.

[Strife26]

Okay, but what the heck is a bearcat?

Your average, everyday military grade* armored truck beloved of every police department who could bilk Homeland Security into paying for one.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Also, a good thing for SWAT teams, within the actual purview that SWAT teams should be a thing.


*Military grade being pre-Iraq War military grade. They're not nearly as tough as a modern MRAP, but the Bearcat line would include whatever armored trucks the government shows up to the party with, be they Caimans, Maxxpros, or RG-33's


More pictures because armored vehicles are cool! (when they're not directed against you if you don't have parity in armor)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

RG33

Maxxpro

And the Caiman, which isobviously the coolest armored thing you'll find without treads.


I'm not patient enough to find them in police colors, but you get the idea.

[TheBiggerFish]

Aha.  Thankye.

[RedKing]

You forgot Option #4:
Federal government moves in and gets rid of these morons and no one outside of people who already think Obama is the Antichrist and a secret Muslim conspirator gives a flying fuck. Because, seriously -- outside of the militia movement, they're not going to find support.

Even Cliven Bundy isn't particularly supporting his own son, nor are the Hammonds. Ammon Bundy and these other idiots are pure opportunists, plain and simple.

It's no coincidence that the militia movement lost steam in the late 90's, because the Feds had killed or jailed a number of their leaders. Then they were willing to sit idle when Bush was in office (despite his own fucking with civil liberties) and only began to spin back up towards the last 2 years of his tenure. Then once you had a black Democrat as President, they went into overdrive recruiting mode. Now they think they're strong enough (and the government is weak enough) that they're testing the waters. If you don't want to continue seeing escalations from these people, you make sure that they find those waters very, very bitter to drink.

Strife, you took an oath to defend America from its enemies, foreign *and* domestic. I would classify these as domestic enemies.


https://twitter.com/amandapeacher/status/683680646611382272
("I didn't come here to shoot I came here to die."#bundymilitia, (will ID only as "Capt. Moroni"))

Yeah, that doesn't sound like people just trying to make a peaceful point about government overreach. It's the Christmas season, I say we give him his wish.

[Dorsidwarf]

Do what they do in the Middle East and ignore then until they get bored and step outside.

Then drop a bunker-buster on the building.


If you want to make a point, wait 'till they've all left the building.

[Loud Whispers]

It's rather unsettling that you appear to be correct, LW.

Yeah, I recall the saying: 'Might does not make right, Might makes.' When peaceful protests go ignored either by media, authorities or both, then the effective avenue of violence seems to get what you want.

I sincerely doubt that would work for the left in the U.S.  You mention Baltimore, but the national guard was deployed there.  And there's a deep history of authorities going HARD after anyone left-leaning who engages in or threatens any sort of violence or property destruction.

Nah it'd be cool, left and progressive media would cover their backs and left politicians would protect them. Right now the only violence the left's done has been disorganized progressive stack rioting, disorganized and unrestrained and without a real defined leftist ideology. The thing with the Muhammed / Cartoonist wars and the Bundy Ranch showdown and its tied groups is that they offer an incentive to concede, a threat of violence or use of violence that can be avoided by the authorities altering their behaviour in a very small way. This is very different from opportunistic looting, as you can't really negotiate with a loose disorganized rabble that continues looting for as long as they're not stopped. Plus their targets were quite poor, not government or media figures / symbols like Islamist or Secessionist groups choose, while burning your own businesses down just burns your own businesses down
Compare this with say like that one Virginia shooter who killed those two reporters because he was doing it to fight homophobic racism e.t.c.

[Strife26]

You forgot Option #4:
Federal government moves in and gets rid of these morons and no one outside of people who already think Obama is the Antichrist and a secret Muslim conspirator gives a flying fuck. Because, seriously -- outside of the militia movement, they're not going to find support.

Even Cliven Bundy isn't particularly supporting his own son, nor are the Hammonds. Ammon Bundy and these other idiots are pure opportunists, plain and simple.

It's no coincidence that the militia movement lost steam in the late 90's, because the Feds had killed or jailed a number of their leaders. Then they were willing to sit idle when Bush was in office (despite his own fucking with civil liberties) and only began to spin back up towards the last 2 years of his tenure. Then once you had a black Democrat as President, they went into overdrive recruiting mode. Now they think they're strong enough (and the government is weak enough) that they're testing the waters. If you don't want to continue seeing escalations from these people, you make sure that they find those waters very, very bitter to drink.

Strife, you took an oath to defend America from its enemies, foreign *and* domestic. I would classify these as domestic enemies.


https://twitter.com/amandapeacher/status/683680646611382272
("I didn't come here to shoot I came here to die."#bundymilitia, (will ID only as "Capt. Moroni"))

Yeah, that doesn't sound like people just trying to make a peaceful point about government overreach. It's the Christmas season, I say we give him his wish.

I'd strongly argue that a government that took those steps would fall just as squarely into that domestic enemy definition as a bunch of idiots occupying an empty building in the middle of nowhere.


If they get killed, they've proved the point that the government is dangerous to its own citizens, over essentially a dick measuring contest.

[Loud Whispers]

I'd strongly argue that a government that took those steps would fall just as squarely into that domestic enemy definition as a bunch of idiots occupying an empty building in the middle of nowhere.
If they get killed, they've proved the point that the government is dangerous to its own citizens, over essentially a dick measuring contest.

Tripwire b8
Russian nuggets will free America, comrade kalashnikov will liberate the fuck out of the unassailable continent

Or you could not take the b8 but that's less likely to make sexy hollywood movies 20 years from now

[hector13]

I would like to point out that your average citizen isn't going to occupy a building while armed (albeit peacefully) and say they'll shoot anyone who tries to get them to leave, declare their sovereignty, and then invite other gun wielding maniacs to the party.

Or maybe I just live in the wrong part of 'murrica.

[mainiac]

You aren't supposed to respect the civil liberties of enemies of the state out of convenience.

[Loud Whispers]

You aren't supposed to respect the civil liberties of enemies of the state out of convenience.

Finally the USA and PRC see eye to eye

[RedKing]

@Strife: Possibly. But what we have here is a situation where you have an influx of foreign (as in "not local") fighters getting involved in what is essentially a local dispute, and imposing their "liberation" on the locals who just want them to fuck off. Which accurately describes al-Qaeda and ISIS as well.

I'll admit that Posse Comitatus does counter-indicate military involvement. But (luckily?) the way law enforcement has militarized in the last decade, I'm sure LEO's have something sufficient to drop the hammer.

[Loud Whispers]

Eh, there's only a real need to go complete obliterate-the-fuck-out-of-them mode if they're outright claiming to be independent entities of the US, which does not appear to be the case. Otherwise, they're not really committing treason since they're not committing secession.

So Erdogan really is doing nothing wrong and the PKK should expect no US help in avoiding being flattened by Turk tanks, since they are committing treason against the Turkish state?

[Strife26]

@Strife: Possibly. But what we have here is a situation where you have an influx of foreign (as in "not local") fighters getting involved in what is essentially a local dispute, and imposing their "liberation" on the locals who just want them to fuck off. Which accurately describes al-Qaeda and ISIS as well.

I'll admit that Posse Comitatus does counter-indicate military involvement. But (luckily?) the way law enforcement has militarized in the last decade, I'm sure LEO's have something sufficient to drop the hammer.

There's two effective ways to look at that. Firstly, my original point, that you're literally talking about killing people for a local dispute that's pretty damn meaningless and certainly not necessary. They're threatening all of nothing with what they're doing.

Now, if we're stretching it further and comparing these guys to an insurgency, then superior force is also likely not the right option (likely best option is kill them all but have a very very good excuse, but that's probably beyond the government's power, although my earlier listed idea of feeding a sheep to the wolves so you can sick the wolves on the sheep-wolves would probably be decent). I'd lean towards your superior expertise on militia-y things, but the second and third order effects of killing the lot of them do not seem like they'd be terribly good. I mean, maybe I'm not the average anti-government-sympathetic person, but that'd make me much more wary of the government, not cowed because the militia movement lost a pack of idiots.

[Strife26]

Eh, there's only a real need to go complete obliterate-the-fuck-out-of-them mode if they're outright claiming to be independent entities of the US, which does not appear to be the case. Otherwise, they're not really committing treason since they're not committing secession.

So Erdogan really is doing nothing wrong and the PKK should expect no US help in avoiding being flattened by Turk tanks, since they are committing treason against the Turkish state?

I'm talking relative to the US's laws about treason. I have no idea about Turkey's laws against treason and secession.

And they don't really affect our hypothetical US response anyway, nonwithstanding NATO questions.