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[Ogdibus]

I haven't seen any issues arising from it so far, and I've been paying attention.  I like the idea, personally.

[origamiscienceguy]

what are the issues associated with doing away with gender-oriented restrooms? hasnt this been done anywhere with success? i heard theres no gender segregation in the norwegian military and it was ok.

sexual abuse? Military can deal with that way better than the average public.

[redwallzyl]

just replace all urinals with stalls. problem fixed. you cant see anyone else anyway whats the issue.

[origamiscienceguy]

But gender-segregated restrooms are so that multiple people can use it at the same time. Does nobody else see a problem with having men and women naked in the same room?

[Ogdibus]

That's not the only example of unisex facilities, and the others have been similarly safe.

Homosexual and bisexual people have been sharing gender segregated facilities since they were invented.  It takes more than attraction to cause the problems that you are worried about.

[smjjames]

But gender-segregated restrooms are so that multiple people can use it at the same time. Does nobody else see a problem with having men and women naked in the same room?

I get what you're getting at, but is that realistically going to be a problem?

If a male sexual predator really wanted to, theres nothing stopping them from going into the womens restroom.

Plus theres the side cases of Daddy or Mommy taking their little girl or boy into the mens or womens restroom.

[i2amroy]

what are the issues associated with doing away with gender-oriented restrooms? hasnt this been done anywhere with success? i heard theres no gender segregation in the norwegian military and it was ok.

sexual abuse? Military can deal with that way better than the average public.

This is actually just a big red-herring panic-scare. Check expert feedback on law after law and you'll see plenty of things like this instead:

I am unaware of any sexual assault as the result of the CT gender identity or expression law.  I'm pretty sure it would have come to our attention.

In Hawai`i, the protection against discrimination in public accommodations on the basis of sex, including gender identity or expression, has not resulted in increase sexual assault or rape in women's restrooms.  The HCRC is not aware of any incidents of sexual assault or rape causally related or attributed to the prohibition against discrimination on the basis of gender identity or expression. (In contrast to anecdotal reports of transgender students being harassed and bullied in school restrooms when forced to use an assigned restroom inconsistent with their gender identity.)

We have not seen that. I doubt that's gonna encourage the behavior. If the behavior's there, [sexual predators are] gonna behave as they're gonna behave no matter what the laws are.

I know that this concern persists but I personally have not seen any factual basis for it.

I am not aware of any increased sexual assault or rape in women's restrooms as a result of Maine's 2005 adoption of protections in the Maine Human Rights Act for sexual orientation.

Since this 1997 amendment there have been no incidents or issues regarding persons abusing this ordinance or using them as a defense to commit crimes. Specifically, as was raised as a concern if the bill were to be passed, there have been no incidents of men dressing up as women to commit crimes in female bathrooms and using the city ordinance as a defense.

The argument that providing transgender rights will result in an increase of sexual violence against women or men in public bathrooms is beyond specious.  The only people at risk are the transgender men and women whose rights to self-determination, dignity and freedom of violence are too often denied.  We have not heard of any problems since the passage of the law in Massachusetts in 2011, nor do we expect this to be a problem.  While cases of stranger rape and sexual violence occur, sexual violence is most often perpetrated by someone known to the victim and not a stranger in the bush or the bathroom.

Sexual assaults stemming from Minnesota's 1993 transgender non-discrimination law have been "not even remotely" a problem. Based on his experience, the notion of men posing as transgender women to enter women's restrooms to commit sex crimes "sounds a little silly," Elder said. According to Elder, a police department inquiry found "nothing" in the way of such crimes in the city.

Asked whether Nevada's 2011 gender identity law had fueled a rise in sex crimes, Las Vegas Police Department spokesman Jesse Roybal told Media Matters, "the answer would be no." After the department's lieutenant for sexual assault ran a check of crimes since 2011, Roybal told Media Matters that the department had not "had any incidents involving transgender suspects."

We are unaware of any cases of assault in our city as a result of transgendered [sic] accommodations.

Our agency has encountered zero allegations of LGBT assault related to this public accommodation protection.

I have never heard of any issues like this in Portland. We have a very low rate of sexual assault/rape crimes here overall.

In addition, we are not aware of any affect the passage of the law has had on incidents of assault in public restrooms.

I have only been here a short time so was checking with my staff to find out if they were aware of any issues. ... We are not aware of any other issues or problems similar to this caused by prohibiting discrimination against those who are transgendered.

Montpelier Police Chief Tony Facos responded to an email inquiry about whether the state's non-discrimination law had led to incidents of rape or sexual assault in women's restrooms, stating, "We do not have any complaints related to this issue."

Simply put, the whole "non-gendered bathrooms will lead to a sharp rise in sexual assault!" stuff is basically just a bunch of hooey that has been kicked up into a public panic by people who have no actual idea what they are talking about.

[Orange Wizard]

PPE: Woo, 5 replies. I'm not reviewing this.

If you're going to draw a line, why not draw it at when a person starts looking like the gender they're transitioning to?

In terms of the gender line, sure, that's a fine place to draw it.
In any case, you're missing my point. My point is that biological sex is immutable. No amount of surgery or hormone treatment is going to change their DNA. And that conservatives (generalising, sue me) will equate biological sex to gender appearance - that a person's sex is their gender. (Also fuck whoever decided "gender" should be interchangeable with "sex", you've made these arguments fucking atrocious.) So arguing where to draw a gender line is pointless when talking to these people.

(P.S. Personally, I prefer to call a person whatever they want to be called, if I know what that is.

Me too, because then I don't get shit on for being transphobic.

[Cruxador]

what are the issues associated with doing away with gender-oriented restrooms? hasnt this been done anywhere with success? i heard theres no gender segregation in the norwegian military and it was ok.

sexual abuse? Military can deal with that way better than the average public.

Military aren't exactly known for lack of raping, generally. Modern militaries are better at it, but the thing is, raping people in the bathroom is not any less possible because of this. To rape someone in a public place, it needs to be either empty or full of people who are your close friends, generally pro-rape, or ideally both. Nothing about gender/bathroom policies makes them more likely to be filled with friendly rapists, and making it necessary to have a third bathroom would make empty bathrooms slightly more likely.

But gender-segregated restrooms are so that multiple people can use it at the same time. Does nobody else see a problem with having men and women naked in the same room?

Do they not have stalls where you live?

[Frumple]

But gender-segregated restrooms are so that multiple people can use it at the same time. Does nobody else see a problem with having men and women naked in the same room?

... what kind of place are you living that people strip down before going into a stall or sidling up to a urinal? Alternately, what the buggery is going on that has multiple people sharing the same stall? _{I mean, besides buggery *eyebrow waggle*}

And kinda' ninja'd, but... yeah. Yeah.

Insofar as practicality goes, iirc it would cost a bit to transition the male bathrooms into unisex ones (which would consist of replacing the urinals with proper stalls, which I can't see many men actually complaining about, m'self. Stalls are barely slower and involve a lot fewer creeps staring at your junk.), but that would largely be it. Space wise would be about on par, there's not really much that would need to be done to accommodate women (maybe a bio disposal bin for sanitary products, iirc), and... nothing needs to be done to accommodate men, because urinals are the only thing going on there and they're not exactly needed, nor do they really save much space.

Honestly, so far as stall space goes, unisex would be significantly more efficient in many areas -- it's not exactly unknown for one or the other gendered bathroom to be filled to capacity and the other mostly empty. If overflow can shift as necessary without the current issues involved there, things would be better insofar as that goes. You'd still want (at least) two just for maintenance reasons if it's a venue of any meaningful size, but yeah.

[Helgoland]

Why would you need to not have urinals in a unisex bathroom anyway? It's not like women don't know what a penis looks like, and peeking ought to be a non-issue because women won't walk up to the urinals and use them. Also because currently urinals and homosexuals coexist, but that's a comparatively weak argument.

[smirk]

Why would you need to not have urinals in a unisex bathroom anyway? It's not like women don't know what a penis looks like, and peeking ought to be a non-issue because women won't walk up to the urinals and use them. Also because currently urinals and homosexuals coexist, but that's a comparatively weak argument.

It's not a need to not have them so much as they take up space that could fit more stalls instead, which everyone can use rather than just folks with penises. And as Frumple pointed out, peeing in a urinal doesn't save that much time or space overall compared to peeing in a stall. Net gain.

Although I could also see a company not wanting to pay to redo a men's room, and just slapping an 'everyone' label over the 'men' label on the door and calling it a day. Which would most likely be fine if it's not a high-traffic venue.

[Helgoland]

Well, stalls take up less space, and make less of a mess. Would you rather use a stall that's been used by dozens of people as a urinal, or a stall that's only been used like it's supposed to?

And regarding the 'not everyone can use them' argument: This only becomes relevant in situations where the bathroom is near maximum capacity - and in most cases there'll be plenty of men there willing to use a urinal, so urinals actually do increase maximum capacity by being faster*.

*I actually disagree with peeing in a urinal taking as much time as peeing in a normal stall. Entering the stall, locking the door, lifting the toilet seat, peeing, putting the seat down because hey I'm not an asshole, flushing, opening the stall again... Much easier to just whip out your dick and relax.

[TheBiggerFish]

just replace all urinals with stalls. problem fixed. you cant see anyone else anyway whats the issue.

Honestly, this makes sense, although tbe fringe case of 'tall people' needs to be addressed with, y'know, stalls that are actually tall enough to block someone's view no matter how tall they are.

@Helgoland:A lot of men sit, too.

In the hypothetical of a unisex with urinals, there still would need to be doors, because children, so...Really, how time-consuming is a toilet seat?

[Baffler]

Urinals are, in my experience, far easier to clean and tend to be cleaner in general because of it as well. Mostly because nobody is trying to poop in it, but still. They're more efficient per-flush when considering water usage too.