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Author Topic: gem/rock/glass forge question  (Read 2201 times)

Insanegame27

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gem/rock/glass forge question
« on: January 07, 2015, 04:25:06 am »

what material is better for what weapon/armour/etc

never had time to science
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smakemupagus

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Re: gem/rock/glass forge question
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2015, 05:00:03 am »

from the Dwarf/regular glassforge:

green warglass is worse than iron by a moderate amount
clear warglass is just like iron
crystal warglass is better than iron by a moderate amount

from the Orc/Warlock glassforge:

ashland glass is as light as mithril, is a little better than steel for edged weapons.  It is good for armor: easier to fracture than mithril, but deforms less.  So, you might benefit from layering with mithril or steel.

ebonglass is as heavy as wolfram, is a little better than steel for edged weapons, and great for blunt weapons.  It is OK for armor: easier to fracture than mithril, but deforms less; but weight is a drawback for unskilled wearers.

rubyglass and cobaltglass are non-weapon grade decorative stained glasses.

smakemupagus

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Re: gem/rock/glass forge question
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2015, 05:10:40 am »

Rocktip arrows/bolts are OK.  Other weapons made from rock* are just junk, worthless except for shields (if that's possible?), and arguably better than nothing for helm, trap components, or blunt weapons.  In orc mode you can make rock clubs from the go which can be handy if you play with early elves or in nasty biomes, but its obsolete as soon as you have any metal at all.

Gemtip weapons and arrows are fine, comparable to crystal warglass.  i.e. better than iron, worse than steel.

*except for obsidian and [redacted] macuahuitls
« Last Edit: January 07, 2015, 05:15:55 am by smakemupagus »
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Vitellozzo

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Re: gem/rock/glass forge question
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2015, 11:34:14 am »

fracture, [...] deforms less
From what armors have a durability? How does it works?
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smakemupagus

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Re: gem/rock/glass forge question
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2015, 12:11:49 pm »

From what armors have a durability? How does it works?

No, nothing about durability.  Material strengths in DF work on a linearized model of an elastic stress-strain curve.  As you apply stress (force per area) the material deforms linearly up to a point and then fails catastrophically.  The parameters are (1) the slope: how much it bends for a given stress.  And (2) the breaking point: how much strain it takes before it breaks.  The deformation can allow a blow that doesn't break the armor to still cause blunt trauma.

So much like real life you can have materials which are strong and brittle, strong and ductile, weak and brittle, weak and ductile, or anywhere in between.  Ashland-glass and mithril are both great armor materials but they are different: mithril is less likely to fail against an attack from a strong steel/ashglass/mithril blade, but ashland-glass will protect you more fully from an iron/bronze/copper strike that isn't going to penetrate anyway.

There are also different parameters for impact (blunt) vs. shear (edged) strength, so for example, orichalcum has a particularly excellent impact modulus, so you might consider layering a mail or cloak of it with your deep-bronze armor which has superior shear modulus.

Volcanic is very strong and quite low deformation, so if I remember correctly, it trumps the other high end materials in every category.  But it still is partially elastic, so it will deform under heavy blows.

The very best mythical materials adamantine and bifrost, are both very strong and perfectly brittle, they don't deform at all.

edit.  To be clear, when I use the term "breaks", i mean: the calculation determines that enough force was applied by the attack that the blade penetrates the armor and the wearer is vulnerable to the weapon attack.  The armor itself is never permanently damaged in combat.  Although I wouldn't be surprised if that gets implemented by Toady in the future.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2015, 12:19:34 pm by smakemupagus »
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Vitellozzo

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Re: gem/rock/glass forge question
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2015, 12:17:11 pm »

This is wonderful.
Thank you very much.


To know impact and shear strenght do I have to SCIENCE through raws? (I'm not asking you to post every kind of armor!)
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Meph

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Re: gem/rock/glass forge question
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2015, 12:18:04 pm »

The best source of info is the wiki. Check "armor" and "metals" and "inorganic tokens". Thats all we modders know, really.

For serious details, write a PM to Urist DaVinci. :D
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Vitellozzo

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Re: gem/rock/glass forge question
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2015, 12:19:31 pm »

Bwahuahuahuahu I love you guys.
Thanks for the info and the kindness both of you, this expanded very much how do I see the game now.
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LMeire

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Re: gem/rock/glass forge question
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2015, 12:24:55 pm »

I can't read raws too well and conducted all of my research using the possibly-outdated wiki, but if the rock in question is an ore for a weapon-metal it seems to work at about half the quality of a smelted metal of the same type. So raw malachite isn't worth it at all, but raw adamantine is still slightly better than steel for a fraction of the weight (of steel). Still, it's probably better to process and smelt ores than rockforge with it if you can.

With other rocks, I didn't look much up, but it seems like the only really important stat is density. Jet should be the best rock for "light" shields, since shields always work perfectly on everything no matter what they're made of and jet is the lightest non-ore rock in the (vanilla) game. While cinnabar is super-heavy and while impractical for all but the strongest of creatures to wield, cinnabar makes really good blunt weapons for use in traps.
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smakemupagus

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Re: gem/rock/glass forge question
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2015, 12:28:53 pm »

While cinnabar is super-heavy and while impractical for all but the strongest of creatures to wield, cinnabar makes really good blunt weapons for use in traps.

Ha!  Neat, that's a good point.