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[Neonivek]

well, whether she "accepts it" or not is irrelevant

It is quite important.

The reason why rape scenes are so reviled isn't that... "Rape scenes are wrong" but rather how they are handled. Often just flowing off a woman's back, being used for shock value and nothing more, or being used to motivate a male character.

In this case it hurts Dawn and she has to deal with it... within her own plotline. It isn't just done and forgotten about, it is actually part of the rising action.

Being "necessary" is irrelevant. Nothing is "necessary"

oh I thought you meant the physical act itself when you said accept.

There's a lot of people out there that have been raped that will be triggered by rape scenes and the like, they should be used excessively sparingly.

Yeah, I think depicting rape on screen is not good. Or at least make it skippable or something, as a sort of compromise.

I don't even like implied rape, but movies need to have a warning when they put that shit in there. I fixate on that kind of thing for months and sometimes years so I will have this ongoing nausea and not-well feeling for a long time afterwards

Well, other then "but some people might have PTSD" do you have some more solid objections?

[UXLZ]

Rape can sometimes be necessary for a well-crafted plot or believable characters, however...

Well, it's a very sensitive subject. With good reason, of course.

[Arcvasti]

well, whether she "accepts it" or not is irrelevant

It is quite important.

The reason why rape scenes are so reviled isn't that... "Rape scenes are wrong" but rather how they are handled. Often just flowing off a woman's back, being used for shock value and nothing more, or being used to motivate a male character.

In this case it hurts Dawn and she has to deal with it... within her own plotline. It isn't just done and forgotten about, it is actually part of the rising action.

Being "necessary" is irrelevant. Nothing is "necessary"

oh I thought you meant the physical act itself when you said accept.

There's a lot of people out there that have been raped that will be triggered by rape scenes and the like, they should be used excessively sparingly.

Yeah, I think depicting rape on screen is not good. Or at least make it skippable or something, as a sort of compromise.

I don't even like implied rape, but movies need to have a warning when they put that shit in there. I fixate on that kind of thing for months and sometimes years so I will have this ongoing nausea and not-well feeling for a long time afterwards

Yeah, there should definitely be warnings. Some little thing on the box like: Warning: Contains implied sexual violence. That way you can have your cake and eat it. Or rather, you get to not eat the cake if you know its made of asbestos while people who like the taste of asbestos get to eat it. Win-win.

@Neonovik:

An unfair amount of people do have it. Plus I believe its pretty poor taste, personally. I don't have a problem with implied rape in video games as long as its treated as something as horrible as it is. Whatever game Smee ran into that treated it as acceptable is not OK[And then some.].

[smeeprocket]

well, whether she "accepts it" or not is irrelevant

It is quite important.

The reason why rape scenes are so reviled isn't that... "Rape scenes are wrong" but rather how they are handled. Often just flowing off a woman's back, being used for shock value and nothing more, or being used to motivate a male character.

In this case it hurts Dawn and she has to deal with it... within her own plotline. It isn't just done and forgotten about, it is actually part of the rising action.

Being "necessary" is irrelevant. Nothing is "necessary"

oh I thought you meant the physical act itself when you said accept.

There's a lot of people out there that have been raped that will be triggered by rape scenes and the like, they should be used excessively sparingly.

Yeah, I think depicting rape on screen is not good. Or at least make it skippable or something, as a sort of compromise.

I don't even like implied rape, but movies need to have a warning when they put that shit in there. I fixate on that kind of thing for months and sometimes years so I will have this ongoing nausea and not-well feeling for a long time afterwards

Well, other then "but some people might have PTSD" do you have some more solid objections?

I think triggering people is a pretty solid objection to something that isn't needed. I mean I guess we could stack games full of dead babies, torture, and rape but I think -most- people would get disturbed at some point.

I hear there's a mod for GTA V someone made that lets you jump in on other peoples' games and rape people in said game. I did not realize that was something that was needed outside of deranged fan-made material though.

[UXLZ]

I believe this is relevant.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGeXzM13TY0

[smeeprocket]

I don't have sound atm, but Jim Sterling is a raging sexist iirc. I'd rather have a synopsis than sit through that.

[Glowcat]

I don't think Jim is a particularly exemplar feminist, but umm, he's pretty pro-feminist. Especially in the linked video which mocks people complaining about LGBT inclusion in Bioware games.

EDIT: After a bit of searching on the Internet about his past before I noticed him it seems that you're sorta correct, and he's fairly noteworthy in how he's done a 180 from previous positions.

I’ve taken to calling my prior attitude, as well as the attitude of other members of the gaming community, the “obviously not” syndrome. In my mind, I “obviously” wasn’t a sexist because I didn’t believe in mistreating women, in hurting women, that sort of more extreme activity the cursory glancer associates with sexism. That’s the insidious thing about misogyny and privilege — you never really think of the subtle things, the more sinister harmful things you may be perpetuating. Making jokes about feminist, being “satirical,” calling someone a “feminazi slut,” it was all fine and dandy, because I “obviously” didn’t mean it, and “obviously” didn’t think I was a bad person. The trouble is, when you start telling yourself it’s “obvious,” you give yourself no further cause to actually reflect on yourself or your behavior.

[UXLZ]

Well, sexism can go either way. Maybe smeep think's he's too extreme a feminist? Hell, I hate that word. It has so many negative connotations nowadays it's lost all meaning. (Feminist, that is.)

[Neonivek]

I think triggering people is a pretty solid objection to something that isn't needed. I mean I guess we could stack games full of dead babies, torture, and rape but I think -most- people would get disturbed at some point.

I hear there's a mod for GTA V someone made that lets you jump in on other peoples' games and rape people in said game. I did not realize that was something that was needed outside of deranged fan-made material though.

We are talking about "Rape in any capacity" not "Worst case scenario of horrible taudry horrific usage"

Because guess what? There are games with dead babies including a few ones where they are killed on screen.

There are games that have no problems with killing children.

There is a childrens game out there where a 12 year old girl gets shot.

Well, sexism can go either way. Maybe smeep think's he's too extreme a feminist? Hell, I hate that word. It has so many negative connotations nowadays it's lost all meaning. (Feminist, that is.)

Feminism as a word's issue is that it is EXTREMELY loaded.

[Glowcat]

Well, sexism can go either way. Maybe smeep think's he's too extreme a feminist? Hell, I hate that word. It has so many negative connotations nowadays it's lost all meaning. (Feminist, that is.)

Feminist has always been a loaded term and attacked as too extreme for whichever was the current society. Literally back when women were fighting for Suffrage they were subject of nasty political cartoons accusing them of being man-haters, harridans, and unmarriageable due to their hostility. That's more an issue with people trying to slam an entire issue based on whatever negative examples they can find (whether real or imaginary).

[Neonivek]

Even if we eliminated all negative connotation from Feminist

It is still a extremely loaded term.

[UXLZ]

True enough. Personally I prefer something like Gender Equality since it includes everything.

[Glowcat]

Because I seem to have the opportunity to post it while also sorta addressing something:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[UXLZ]

Because I seem to have the opportunity to post it while also sorta addressing something:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Mmm... Well, it's less because I feel 'left out', more so because one should call it what it is. Or rather, should be. If one does not equate feminism with gender equality then it leads to three (that I can think of at the moment, I may have overlooked some) interpretations.

A) Women are trying to be less-than-equal. Doesn't make much sense.
B) Women are aiming for more-than-equal, which is just a reversal of the situation and essentially somewhat hypocritical.
C) Women are aiming for their own equality but not that of other, possibly a 'some are more equal' situation... It gets kind of confusing (for me) here. Regardless, this path risks hypocrisy once more.

D) The gender equality path, which makes the most sense. To me, at least.

[Neonivek]

True enough. Personally I prefer something like Gender Equality since it includes everything.

Feminism is female side equality not general equality.

While Feminism does branch out, it is more because of the interconnection between the genders. It isn't interested in male equality because that is outside its sphere of interest. Not that being feminist means you have no interest in general or male equality or that it means you care about it any less.

There are many terms for people who are interested in just Gender Equality or just equality in general.

But here is kind of the thing.

You can disagree with the idea of Feminism as a political construct without disagreeing with the prime tenants that the genders are equal. Which I think is important to remember because A) People need to remember the Feminism isn't a dictatorship and B) People need to remember not to handle Feminism as a dictatorship... and that disagreements and discourse will occur.

Also DEAR HOLY does that comic have soo much historical context... It honestly could have been made during the creation of the feminist movement and it would be accurate to what was going on at the time. Interested that decades later, that is still a thing.

---

Feminism isn't, to me at least, a flawed idea (the political idea... not the core concept). It is like Supply and Demand. Sure, Feminism is only one side equality but it doesn't take up space or attention.

If anything feminism helped people with the idea that even men don't have to fit into these roles people prescribe to them and that this idea that "men have to be manly" is wrong. The fact that women were no longer in these roles of weakness, means that men were no longer in these roles of strength. So people started to build the support structures for men who are in disadvantages positions. People started to see men as maternal, caring, affectionate. Feminism has actually done a lot to aid men's rights.

Sure, I disagree with many things that the different forms of Feminism says... but that isn't a problem, nor is it a flaw of any of the forms of Feminism. I doubt anyone here agrees with every single thing any form of feminism states.

Ultimately Feminism just tries to ask "Why aren't we equal, and how can we change that for the better?" and takes a female centric approach. I am vastly simplifying mind you, but at its heart that is what it is trying to do.

Feminism, the political ideology, isn't anything special. It is no more villainous or heroic then liberalism or socialism.

Which I kind of thing is overall issue with feminism. The idea and ideologies that surround it, and simple advocacy for women are used interchangeably even though they are vastly different beasts. It confuses stupid people and by stupid people I mean everyone.