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[Reelya]

The numbers are significantly higher than that. I've presented my own evidence on the matter. It seems obtuse to me to actually believe those numbers considering what is happening with rape culture in our colleges and the danger these women face after coming out. People are scared, they don't wan to say they were raped because people do awful hings to outspoken rape victims.

I'm citing a link you gave us, how is that being obtuse? So you're being so selective in your cherry picking that any numbers in a source you link which don't agree with you must be bullshit?

All the data I've seen is that barriers rape reporting have significantly fallen in the last 20 years, not risen. Like every other violent crime category did. All the categories are the same: violent crimes (including rape) peaked in 1993, then fell, and there was a slight upturn in the early 2000's in every category including rape, then they all fell again afterwards:

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Occam's razor implies that all crimes in general (including rape) has decline massively since '93. Unless you can show some evidence that there are more rapes now than 20 years ago and data showing a falling reporting rate?

[Neonivek]

you are just attempting to trivialize my argument now and troll, so don't expect a response.

I am trivializing your argument because I feel your argument IS trivial. So I am stating that it is trivial.

I'd be trolling if I did it for any other reason.

---

Penguinofhonor sorry for not really mentioning you. You do have an argument there but there is so much reading... suffice it to say yeah you are right. Sexualization of women is harmful to self-esteem. Though oddly enough that isn't because of male gaze.

Since female oriented media has the exact same problem.

HECK! just look at Heroine's Quest... Yeah... I am so sure ANY girl actually looks like a blonde goddess... Glad to see that even if she becomes a warrior she doesn't have to put on any real muscle.

[Empiricist]

It hardly matters smeeprocket your whole argument just boils down to hurt feelings which frankly... is weak.

I wouldn't call that a rather a weak case. At the end of the day, everything boils down to feelings. You asked for correlation between videogame representation and violence, yet at the end of the day, violence and whatnot does little but hurt feelings. Take all the atrocities, all the sins ever committed, at the end of the day, once you grind them down far enough it is still a matter of hurt feelings.

Suppose our entire species goes extinct, does it really matter aside from bruising our own egos, hurting our feelings? Humans are driven by feelings.

I'm sorry but it also goes beyond feelings. Feelings are a terrible thing to hurt, but PTSD victims who suffer flashbacks of their rape when they visit a certain location

or play a video-game with excessive unnecessary female abuse

are not hurt feelings. They're causing a human being such intense mental anguish it can and totally will have physical effects. Often for the rest of their life.

Grind it down enough and it's hurt feelings. Albeit feelings that have been hurt rather severely. As for physical effect, what of them? They're an issue because they result in other matters that hurt feelings. Flashbacks, PTSD, they hurt feelings and cause more scenarios that hurt feelings.

My point is, you cannot just brush aside an argument and diminish it as a case of "hurt feelings", because really, you can do that to any cause however pertinent.

[smeeprocket]

This thread will end up like the others for the same reason: People utterly convinced of their own objectivity (lol) are throwing down "sources" without doing an analysis of the data and actual concerns to address the arguments they think they're refuting. I swear, those who complain the loudest about post-modernism are the ones who need it the most because they run into wall after wall rather than apply some skepticism to themselves first, because they apparently think using the trappings of science and academia will do all their work for them. It then turns into a circlejerk between people providing gotcha questions on the level of "If monkeys evolved, why are they still around?!" with a helping of inherent hostility of which is repeatedly reinforced as the only incivility to be tolerated.

And there's only so much rape apologia that one can take before it's time to say "fuck it, I'm out" and avoid reaching the point where all you wanna do is set the world on fire.

Yea, it's making me ill physically.

Being reminded that a large chunk of the population thinks this stuff isn't such a big deal... I played a game where the entyire thing is about this woman getting raped and the text descriptions were graphic. I caused me a couple weeks of near suicidal, deep depression, and when I mentioned rape apology on the forums, the dev sympathized with the fictional rapist and said women should act like slaves if they don't want to get raped.

[smeeprocket]

The numbers are significantly higher than that. I've presented my own evidence on the matter. It seems obtuse to me to actually believe those numbers considering what is happening with rape culture in our colleges and the danger these women face after coming out. People are scared, they don't wan to say they were raped because people do awful hings to outspoken rape victims.

I'm citing a link you gave us, how is that being obtuse?

All the data I've seen is that barriers rape reporting have significantly fallen in the last 20 years, not risen. Do you have evidence that barriers to rape reporting have become worse?

Most rape isn't forcible rape. Therein lies the problem.

Like I said, I don't want to have to argue with people about whether or not rape is or isn't a problem, because it's just more of the same and makes me ill. I am not strong enough to be the woman who gives you all the quick statistics and shows you the error of your ways. I think all of us wish we could handle the psychological damage of someone trivializing a very real thing, especially with the danger victims who speak out face, but that's for another feminist to do.

[Kingbodz]

I think... I think pufferfish went full crazed feminist.

And here's feminist being used as a negative term. I had a feeling getting into this debate would be... interesting. Also goes to show how deeply rooted in society sexist thoughts are.

It hardly matters smeeprocket your whole argument just boils down to hurt feelings which frankly... is weak.

I wouldn't call that a rather a weak case. At the end of the day, everything boils down to feelings. You asked for correlation between videogame representation and violence, yet at the end of the day, violence and whatnot does little but hurt feelings. Take all the atrocities, all the sins ever committed, at the end of the day, once you grind them down far enough it is still a matter of hurt feelings.

Suppose our entire species goes extinct, does it really matter aside from bruising our own egos, hurting our feelings? Humans are driven by feelings.

I'm sorry but it also goes beyond feelings. Feelings are a terrible thing to hurt, but PTSD victims who suffer flashbacks of their rape when they visit a certain location

or play a video-game with excessive unnecessary female abuse

are not hurt feelings. They're causing a human being such intense mental anguish it can and totally will have physical effects. Often for the rest of their life.

Please note the use of crazed Pufferfish. Not all feminists are bad in my eyes. Just the ones that think men are evil and should be castrated. I am not some asshat from /b/ or /pol. The rational ones that want equality in third world countries or more women in STEM fields I like as long as they don't think I'm some bogeyman rapist for being a guy.

[smeeprocket]

I think... I think pufferfish went full crazed feminist.

And here's feminist being used as a negative term. I had a feeling getting into this debate would be... interesting. Also goes to show how deeply rooted in society sexist thoughts are.

It hardly matters smeeprocket your whole argument just boils down to hurt feelings which frankly... is weak.

I wouldn't call that a rather a weak case. At the end of the day, everything boils down to feelings. You asked for correlation between videogame representation and violence, yet at the end of the day, violence and whatnot does little but hurt feelings. Take all the atrocities, all the sins ever committed, at the end of the day, once you grind them down far enough it is still a matter of hurt feelings.

Suppose our entire species goes extinct, does it really matter aside from bruising our own egos, hurting our feelings? Humans are driven by feelings.

I'm sorry but it also goes beyond feelings. Feelings are a terrible thing to hurt, but PTSD victims who suffer flashbacks of their rape when they visit a certain location

or play a video-game with excessive unnecessary female abuse

are not hurt feelings. They're causing a human being such intense mental anguish it can and totally will have physical effects. Often for the rest of their life.

Please note the use of crazed Pufferfish. Not all feminists are bad in my eyes. Just the ones that think men are evil and should be castrated. I am not some asshat from /b/ or /pol. The rational ones that want equality in third world countries or more women in STEM fields I like as long as they don't think I'm some bogeyman rapist for being a guy.

why do guys always make it about themselves.

#notallmen

These feminists you imagine don't exist. The media and society at large feeds you this image of "Feminazis" but wanting equality isn't a bad thing. It's more offensive to people for me to speak out about my rights than for men to push them down.

[Shinotsa]

Please note the use of crazed Pufferfish. Not all feminists are bad in my eyes. Just the ones that think men are evil and should be castrated. I am not some asshat from /b/ or /pol. The rational ones that want equality in third world countries or more women in STEM fields I like as long as they don't think I'm some bogeyman rapist for being a guy.

Oh right, in the midst of this shitstorm I might as well mention that my med school class has a 50/50 male/female split! Hurrah for progress!

Ahem, please carry on your with regularly scheduled flaming

[penguinofhonor]

Please note the use of crazed Pufferfish. Not all feminists are bad in my eyes. Just the ones that think men are evil and should be castrated. I am not some asshat from /b/ or /pol. The rational ones that want equality in third world countries or more women in STEM fields I like as long as they don't think I'm some bogeyman rapist for being a guy.

tell me this is an ironic copypasta

[Neonivek]

The problem is smeeprocket is basically this...

Videogames making light of abuse and rape is tasteless... It isn't a good thing, in fact videogames would probably be better without it.

Yet without any sort of hard damage... so what exactly? We can't act on that. We can certainly point out when a game is being tactless... but that is it.

I mean... how many people are up in arms about Big Bang Theory? And that is the most sexist, racist, prejudiced show on the air.

[smeeprocket]

The problem is smeeprocket is basically this...

Videogames making light of abuse and rape is tasteless... It isn't a good thing, in fact videogames would probably be better without it.

Yet without any sort of hard damage... so what exactly? We can't act on that. We can certainly point out when a game is being tactless... but that is it.

damage has repeatedly been linked. Why are you ignoring it?

Considering I suffered near suicidal depression from one of these games, I would argue they do have a detrimental effect. I just don't wan tto jump to the conclusion that violence against women in video games has a direct correlation with domestic violence because I am hesitant to draw those conclusions with regular violence.

Also, the concerns of almost half your audience, regardless of whether or not it is just unhappiness with the product, is very valid.

edit: big bang theory sucks but like every sitcom is terrible in that sense. I am not currently discussing sexism on network tv, though.

[Gentlefish]

The problem is smeeprocket is basically this...

Videogames making light of abuse and rape is tasteless... It isn't a good thing, in fact videogames would probably be better without it.

Yet without any sort of hard damage... so what exactly? We can't act on that. We can certainly point out when a game is being tactless... but that is it.

We can totally act on that.

Don't buy the fucking games. Easy. Play Kerbal or (vanilla) Skyrim or literally any other game that doesn't have abuse or rape as a main plot point.

[Empiricist]

The problem is smeeprocket is basically this...

Videogames making light of abuse and rape is tasteless... It isn't a good thing, in fact videogames would probably be better without it.

Yet without any sort of hard damage... so what exactly? We can't act on that. We can certainly point out when a game is being tactless... but that is it.

We can totally act on that.

Don't buy the fucking games. Easy. Play Kerbal or (vanilla) Skyrim or literally any other game that doesn't have abuse or rape as a main plot point.

I agree, that seems like a pretty easy thing to do. At the very least it helps prevent that sort of thing from proliferating.

[Kingbodz]

Please note the use of crazed Pufferfish. Not all feminists are bad in my eyes. Just the ones that think men are evil and should be castrated. I am not some asshat from /b/ or /pol. The rational ones that want equality in third world countries or more women in STEM fields I like as long as they don't think I'm some bogeyman rapist for being a guy.

tell me this is an ironic copypasta

It totally is I stole it from a troll from ED.

[smeeprocket]

The problem is smeeprocket is basically this...

Videogames making light of abuse and rape is tasteless... It isn't a good thing, in fact videogames would probably be better without it.

Yet without any sort of hard damage... so what exactly? We can't act on that. We can certainly point out when a game is being tactless... but that is it.

We can totally act on that.

Don't buy the fucking games. Easy. Play Kerbal or (vanilla) Skyrim or literally any other game that doesn't have abuse or rape as a main plot point.

exactly, and those who refuse to be part of the solution are ultimately part of the problem.