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[PatrikLundell]

My queen wants to convict 4 different people for export restriction violations. For starters, only two people have ever traded (the first time the broker had more important things to do than to serve the fortress), and to continue I believe I've only traded the amulets she craves when they were off the forbidden list, and that was only once. Thirdly, I think I have traded only 3 times, and never more than one 't'rade for a caravan.
I assume dwarves cannot run smuggling rackets in the background?

Her royal pain in the posterior issues mandates to produce stuff about twice a month, it seems, and as far as I know I haven't failed to meet them, although amulets are quite annoying since you have to go to the lottery to see if you get amulets when you gamble crafts, so it might be that she's really complaining about?

[smeeprocket]

people get punished for bringing the stuff to the supply depot. Also, I have no idea how it decides who to punish for production orders, it always seems somewhat random to me.

[puke]

Sounds like a true-to-life representation of Justice if I've ever heard one.  Possibly it is "not broken enough" for true realism.

Regarding production orders, I think it picks a random dwarf who is skilled in the profession that would be required to meet the production quota.  It SEEMS like it tends to weigh this in favor of higher skilled dwarfs, so your legendary crafter will get punished for not making toy miniforges more often than your dabbling crafter will.

But that might just be bad luck and confirmation bias.

You are probably correct, on the crafts it is really a lottery and you might have missed producing enough amulets if you were not paying close attention.  The 'noble' screen should give you a count of how many were produced since the quota was created.

If you have quotas that you'd rather not meet (dont want to waste rare metals, for example) you can soften the justice system by installing comfortable and well crafted (gilded cage or cuffs -- literally) jails and not having a hammerer... or giving him a featherwood training hammer.

I'm actually not certain on this, it might be that a sheriff will dispense beatings now and it no longer strictly requires a hammerer.  Anyone know for certain how the latest versions work?

[smeeprocket]

hmm I don't usually appoint a hammerer and people were still getting beat for violating production orders.

I usually just set up a jail cell.

Hammerers would be fun if nobles wouldn't use them as their personal hitwomen.

[puke]

those would be hitdwarfs.  what kind of crazy hugh-mann fort are you running over there, anyway?

[Codyo]

dwarves shouldn't be getting beat as long as you have justice set rooms for them

[smeeprocket]

those would be hitdwarfs.  what kind of crazy hugh-mann fort are you running over there, anyway?

I let the humans do the dirty work, no need to sully a good dwarf's hands with murder.

Not that they don't do it anyway if I assign a hammerer.

I don't even think the person beating the last dwarf I saw beaten for violating a production order was in law enforcement. Like the noble just ordered whoever was around to beat the crap out of the dwarf that displeased them...

[Aslandus]

dwarves shouldn't be getting beat as long as you have justice set rooms for them

I don't know what justice system you've been using, but the one I use makes the guards always issue a beating before jail, though sometimes it's because the criminal is being rather... unruly...

I've never appointed a hammerer, but I always keep my fortress guard armed with wooden crossbows (and don't train them in melee) so their beatings are almost never fatal...

[int_ua]

Sounds like a true-to-life representation of Justice if I've ever heard one.  Possibly it is "not broken enough" for true realism.

Any arguments to support such claim?

[smeeprocket]

Sounds like a true-to-life representation of Justice if I've ever heard one.  Possibly it is "not broken enough" for true realism.

Any arguments to support such claim?

that justice is broken in real life, or that the justice system is working as intended? :?.

[puke]

Sounds like a true-to-life representation of Justice if I've ever heard one.  Possibly it is "not broken enough" for true realism.

Any arguments to support such claim?

Not sure what you are getting at here, you seem very sensitive about my cynical little joke.  Surely your home country also has absurd bureaucracies and laws that don't support what most people would consider to be "Just".  I'm not sure where you are from sir, but I make this guess since all human cultures tend to have silly rules. Mine especially.

Regardless, here are a couple real world export restrictions and punishments.  One from my country, another from Germany:

http://www.shz.de/lokales/eckernfoerder-zeitung/pistolen-fuer-kasachstan-waffenhersteller-durchsucht-id5569261.html

http://www.autonews.com/article/20080512/RETAIL/305129947/factories-punish-rogue-exporters

Both of these examples are cases where goods were sold to re-sellers or distributors, and the goods were then exported in some questionable way.  In these cases, it was legal for the re-seller to export the good but not the original manufacturer.  So there are two sales, both of which are individually legal, but when taken together they break some regulation.  The problem comes out that the manufacturer can not know or control what the re-seller or distributor does with the item, they can specify or request that an item is not to be exported but they have no practical way to track or enforce the request.

Now, perhaps you feel that these examples are fair and well merited punishments.  Perhaps so!  But the Baroness also feels that her ban on export of stone mugs is also merited, and if you think otherwise I know a dwarf with a hammer you should meet!



Edit:

I'm just going to add to this post, rather than continuing to make more comments.  Smeeprocket is correct, this is not a good place for this discussion.  But here!  I am breaking a US export law:

Code: [Select]

print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<>
)]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0<X+d*lMLa^*lN%0]dsXx++lMlN/dsM0<J]dsJxp"|dc`
similarly, this tee-shirt was once illegal to take outside of the country or to show to forigners:



And, I see from your profile you are from the Ukraine.  Perhaps something closer to home, you may have heard of bans on Norwegian fish being sold to Russia.  Yet they are sold instead to Belarus and Kazakhstan, and make their way into Russia from there:

http://barentsobserver.com/en/business/2014/11/record-month-norwegian-seafood-spite-russian-sanctions-05-11

[smeeprocket]

Easy guys, debating the intricacies of exporting goods and any related tariffs (god forbid!) is dangerous terrain. Let's not even get into specifics on textiles.

[puke]

PUT DOWN THE SOCK AND STEP AWAY FROM THE TRADE DEPOT!

[smeeprocket]

in response to your edit, I was joking. I'm the last person to be telling people not to go off topic on to real life issues.

I just thought the issue in question was an unusual topic for someone to be passionate about.

[int_ua]

PUT DOWN THE SOCK AND STEP AWAY FROM THE TRADE DEPOT!

  that was good)

Ok, I didn't know about such regulations and consequences in US and DE but yeah, we were laughing from BY ocean products pics not so long ago. Now I agree that it resembles real-world examples more than I thought. But that's still broken IMO, sadly. Number of false-positives, at least in my fortress where I do a lot to make dwarves happy, is so overwhelmingly large compared to punishments for something realistic like fights and homicides that it becomes FUBAR in my view. Especially considering the fact that I keep it republic-like by never agreeing to any monarchy stuff. Elected leaders banning something still looks feasible but the problem is that these dwarves don't have so much free will to decide if they choose to obey it or subject themselves to a probable punishment.