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[strich]

Hey this looks really impressive! I'm curious - Do you intend to release the source code and/or sell this app on the marketplace?

Source code for the server side will be available, app will be sold on the App Store.

Have you spoken to Toady about this? Despite the fact that technically you're only selling a remote, it will appear to the layman that you're reselling the game itself. That sounds unethical at best and flat out illegal at worst.

Yes, I have. You could also read this topic and find his post here.

Thanks to Japa I've now read that. The way I read Toady's post is that he does not like the idea of any application sold for money that has the 'Dwarf Fortress' name in it, at all. You might want to get more explicit confirmation from him.

[mifki]

Hey this looks really impressive! I'm curious - Do you intend to release the source code and/or sell this app on the marketplace?

Source code for the server side will be available, app will be sold on the App Store.

Have you spoken to Toady about this? Despite the fact that technically you're only selling a remote, it will appear to the layman that you're reselling the game itself. That sounds unethical at best and flat out illegal at worst.

Yes, I have. You could also read this topic and find his post here.

Thanks to Japa I've now read that. The way I read Toady's post is that he does not like the idea of any application sold for money that has the 'Dwarf Fortress' name in it, at all. You might want to get more explicit confirmation from him.

I'll be fine, thanks for worrying.

[PeridexisErrant]

The plan is to release Dwarf Fortress Remote for iOS app in the next month or two.

Hype!

And how's the server plugin coming along, and can we merge into the standard DFHack library?

[lethosor]

It would need to be released for that to happen, and I'm not sure how much of it is specific to mifki's iOS app - if it's not easily usable by other DFHack code (like dfstream?), I'm not sure what the benefit of merging it would be. Not that it wouldn't be useful, but we really don't know exactly what it does at this point.

[PeridexisErrant]

Obviously it'll need to be released first, that's how we get the code at all.  I'd see the main benefit in supporting a common backend for the iOS app and alternatives that other people are interested in developing (eg Android, PC, etc), potentially after changes to make it less specific.  As you note it's too early to tell if this would actually be worth doing, but I'm excited about the idea

[SpacyRicochet]

I'm definitely interested in seeing how the Remote works, coming at it from an iOS developer's perspective

Have to say I'm slightly worried about the app being paid, without there being some kind of real licensing/revenue sharing deal with Bay 12. I see a couple of scenario's panning out for it;

1. The app is a work of love but doesn't really have a lot of sales. Sad, probable, but nothing to worry about.
2. The app has a lot of sales (probably because media jumps on it, mentioning 'DF for the masses!1!'), but still has a lot of issues. All these people come to these forums to complain, without realising that Bay 12 doesn't actually have anything to do with the remote.
3. The app has a lot of sales, and works lovely. It gets even more name-recognition and people start buying it for the great game DF is. However, sadly, Bay 12 sees nothing of this money, and they still have to deal with people's expectations surrounding the app.

The latter two scenario's can be harmful to Bay 12 and should be handled with care.

That said, still looking forward to the remote and especially to the open source code for the server side. Would be neat to make all kinds of interesting little side apps, such as a character viewer for your server

[Urist McCoder]

@spacyricochet I think you assume that this app will lower the dwarf fortress learning cliff. In reality at best it will not change the cliff, but I suspect it will make it harder to play.

[SpacyRicochet]

@urist: You're right. That's both an assumption and a hope

[mifki]

I'd prefer not to discuss these questions now, because these are all known things - 1. Toady doesn't want to have any money-related agreements, 2. I'll do whatever possible to direct support requests and issue reports away from these forums, 3. Toady doesn't mind me releasing the app, one of his points being that it requires the desktop game, so people won't be able to play the app without coming to Bay 12 site anyway. Other than that, we don't know how well it will work and sell, so anything can change later once it's released. Of course I'm ready to discuss any other options with him.

As for the learning curve, of course I expect new people who haven't played DF before to start playing by seeing the app on the App Store. On the one hand, there will be no tutorial, so new people will need to read DF wiki/forums to get the general idea what to do in the game. On the other hand, I'm trying to make UI more intuitive, plus there will be help available for each screen, and later you should be able to get description of materials/buildings/items when you see them listed on the screen (DF wiki contextually integrated in the app). So hopefully once you get the basic idea what the game is about, it should be easier to play.

[Dirst]

I apologize if this was answered up-thread, my search-fu is weak.

Does the remote take over the server's interface, or can this be a second screen?  Even if one needed to avoid grabbing the map cursor during two-screen play, a second screen with full access to squads and stocks and so on without interrupting the main interface would be awesome.

Even if it's one screen at a time, it still means that the more compulsive players will be tweaking uniforms during their commutes.  And I fully expect that some of these commuters will be driving

[mifki]

I apologize if this was answered up-thread, my search-fu is weak.

Does the remote take over the server's interface, or can this be a second screen?  Even if one needed to avoid grabbing the map cursor during two-screen play, a second screen with full access to squads and stocks and so on without interrupting the main interface would be awesome.

Even if it's one screen at a time, it still means that the more compulsive players will be tweaking uniforms during their commutes.  And I fully expect that some of these commuters will be driving

When the server needs to use any of the game screens, it creates them and destroys straight away. There are some exceptions left from the early days, but generally the game stays on the map screen on the server. Currently the map isn't movable on the server, and in general no keys should be pressed and so on. However it should be possible to implement a special mode, where everything requiring map interaction (designation, building, giving orders to squads, etc.) is controlled on the desktop, and not map-related stuff is controlled by other players; we can even allow them to scroll the map in "read-only" mode.

[PeridexisErrant]

When the server needs to use any of the game screens, it creates them and destroys straight away. There are some exceptions left from the early days, but generally the game stays on the map screen on the server. Currently the map isn't movable on the server, and in general no keys should be pressed and so on. However it should be possible to implement a special mode, where everything requiring map interaction (designation, building, giving orders to squads, etc.) is controlled on the desktop, and not map-related stuff is controlled by other players; we can even allow them to scroll the map in "read-only" mode.

I would love to see multiplayer in a 2.0 release, but not in 1.0 - because I want to see 1.0 soonish!

[mifki]

When the server needs to use any of the game screens, it creates them and destroys straight away. There are some exceptions left from the early days, but generally the game stays on the map screen on the server. Currently the map isn't movable on the server, and in general no keys should be pressed and so on. However it should be possible to implement a special mode, where everything requiring map interaction (designation, building, giving orders to squads, etc.) is controlled on the desktop, and not map-related stuff is controlled by other players; we can even allow them to scroll the map in "read-only" mode.

I would love to see multiplayer in a 2.0 release, but not in 1.0 - because I want to see 1.0 soonish!

Honestly, I don't see much point in multiplayer in the way it's possible currently. Almost all useful actions require using the map - including selecting a building to queue jobs, pull levers, etc. However, theoretically it should be possible to make buildings selectable from a list and not the map, then it would be much more interesting.

[Dirst]

Just to clarify, my idea for this "multiplayer" was actually a single player with a main interface and then a handy second interface on an iPhone or iPad.  But I agree it's not a 1.0 feature.

[Ehndras]

Wait, there's already a playable version of this game?