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[4maskwolf]

Hello all.  As you may note from my profile, I live in the state of Oregon (which, in case some of you don't know, is in the United States of America), where recreational marijuana was legalized in the most recent election starting, I think, next year.  While I doubt I will be a resident of the state much longer (I'm a senior in high school), I thought it would be interesting to have a civil discussion on the matter.  Particularly, I'm interested in hearing from people who live in areas where marijuana is already legalized, and how it works out there.  I'll get to my opinions of the matter below.

The rules:
1. Follow all forum guidelines.  I mean it.  If I sense the thread is going in a bad direction, I will lock it, if Toady doesn't get to it first.
2. It is perfectly okay to have an opinion, but please frame it as such.  Do not claim something as a "fact" without providing evidence.
3. Beyond just the forum guidelines, there will be no insulting anyone else.  Period.  I mean it.
4. Disagreements are okay, yelling matches are not.

Setting the context: In the 2012 election season, three states of the USA had legislation legalizing marijuana on the ballot: Oregon, Washington, and Colorado.  The bills in Washington and Colorado passed, the Oregon measure did not.  However, in 2014 a very similar measure was put on the ballot and passed.  Legally, marijuana is a Schedule 1 controlled substance as listed under the Controlled Substances Act in the United States as a whole.

I'll get to my opinion in a bit, but I'm interested to hear what other people have to say on the matter.

[Knit tie]

I am all for legalisation of cannabis - it has all the potential to significantly lower alcohol consumption and I know what excessive alcohol consumption does to people. Stoners, unlike drunks, are at least non-violent.

[~Neri]

I personally think it's a bad idea if it's allowed in public.

If they use it recreationally indoors, in private, away from children or people not interested in second hand smoke, then it's fine.

[Fniff]

As long as its legalizing varieties that don't fuck your head like skunk weed, I'd been fine with it. I would not campaign for it, however.

[Frumple]

Can't really address the OP's main question -- I'm down here in florida, where we just eeked under (<3% away from an amendment) passing legalization of medical marijuana -- but insofar as $0.02 goes, I definitely consider legalization -- or, at the absolute least, decriminalization -- of cannabis one of the absolute best things that could happen to the US in regards to our justice system. Just about anything that helps put the screws to the domestic monstrosity that's been the "war" on drugs is a good thing, really. And given that marijuana is, at worst, no worse than alcohol, we don't have a significant reason to not legalize it.

Secondary considerations like robbing the southern cartels of a significant income, as well as bringing in extra tax money, providing jobs, and the whole host of things that would arise from a legal domestic cannabis industry just make it even more attractive. It's one of those things that have an entire host of good sides and incredibly few bad ones, honestly.

Fortunately, the tide in the states is turning towards it. If trends continue, there's pretty good chances we'll see either full or near full legalization across the country before I kick the bucket, which is nice. A bit of hypocrisy corrected and a great deal of social injustice averted... bonuses all around.

[GavJ]

To me it seems so obviously a good choice that I don't even know what the counterarguments would be to discuss against them... would need to wait until somebody mentions some...

Second-hand smoke: You could just limit it to vaporizers and oral (baked goods, butter, etc.) while in public spaces, that seems find by me.
A vape machine is like <$100, and a stick of butter is about $0.25, that's not really impeding anybody's access enough for me to care.

[Flying Dice]

To me it seems so obviously a good choice that I don't even know what the counterarguments would be to discuss against them... would need to wait until somebody mentions some...

Second-hand smoke: You could just limit it to vaporizers and oral (baked goods, butter, etc.) while in public spaces, that seems find by me.
A vape machine is like <$100, and a stick of butter is about $0.25, that's not really impeding anybody's access enough for me to care.

This, pretty much. It was only made illegal in the first place to destroy the hemp industry.

[Cheeetar]

You can make 'medicinal butter'? That renders me incredulous.

[TheDarkStar]

Honestly, I'm against legalizing it. We already have two major recreational drugs and we definitely don't need a third. Yes, smoking might be more dangerous, but there are still significant effects from smoking marijuana (9% addiction rate, eventual memory loss/damage, general issues associated with long-term stimulant use). Don't forget about lung and related damaged from smoking it (because some people will do that anyway, despite other options) and judgement impairment issues. As for hypocrisy in leaving alcohol/tobacco legal, I'm also for illegalizing tobacco (it has truly gigantic costs to everyone) and for at least limiting alcohol consumption (due to lesser cost and some religious use).

[Neonivek]

If there is one huge reason I don't ever want Marijuana to be legalized is...

It smells TERRIBLE! Like... REALLY BAD!

Basically imagine if someone stopped taking baths or showers for a month... and they just finished working out.

[GavJ]

You can make 'medicinal butter'? That renders me incredulous.

THC is an oil. It will dissolve in oils like butter on a stovetop, which you can then just eat. Why does that make you incredulous? Fish oil is good for you, you can buy it as supplements, but you can also just slop some in an asian stew and it will do exactly the same thing for you.
I mean, you can eat marijuana straight up too if you want, but it tastes like ass.

but there are still significant effects from smoking marijuana (9% addiction rate, eventual memory loss/damage, general issues associated with long-term stimulant use).

Why is it your concern if I get myself addicted to marijuana, or if I have minor memory loss? Worry about your own brain, and don't use THC if you don't think it's good for your brain. That's up to you. My brain shouldn't be up to you.

This sort of "protect you against yourself" logic fails massively when compared to the 30 bazillion other things in the world that are WAY worse for you than cannabis that we do not ban:
We don't have laws against skydiving.
We don't have laws against driving in icy conditions.
We don't have laws against eating bacon every meal. (or cheetos and coke for lunch, etc. etc.)
We don't have laws enforcing exercise.
We don't have laws about picking up heavy objects using our backs.
etc. ad infinitum

Are you prepared to endorse all of those laws too? If we legislated everything that was of equal or greater risk than marijuana, we would probably all starve/freeze to death, cause it would be illegal to do much of anything except sit quietly in your living room and stare at the walls, and nobody would be shipping any food to us or mining any natural gas to heat our homes with...

Edit: we do have laws regulating driving and skydiving, for example, but they are just to make sure you don't hurt others by being a greedy company that cuts costs on packing chutes, or a driver that blows through a red light in a school zone. And I am all for marijuana safety regulations such as inspecting growers to make sure they're using clean, orderly facilities and stopping second hand smoke as mentioned above, etc. That's very different than banning.

[TheDarkStar]

While the costs are only personal directly, they do end having costs to everyone in general in the form of medical costs and increased risk of accidents.

Also, your examples (except skydiving, which not many people do) are about necessary things, things that are difficult to avoid doing, and/or things with social pressure to do them. Marijuana is none of these.

Also, I'm curious - how do the numbers work out for damages/year for marijuana?

[penguinofhonor]

Honestly, I'm against legalizing it. We already have two major recreational drugs and we definitely don't need a third. Yes, smoking might be more dangerous, but there are still significant effects from smoking marijuana (9% addiction rate, eventual memory loss/damage, general issues associated with long-term stimulant use). Don't forget about lung and related damaged from smoking it (because some people will do that anyway, despite other options) and judgement impairment issues. As for hypocrisy in leaving alcohol/tobacco legal, I'm also for illegalizing tobacco (it has truly gigantic costs to everyone) and for at least limiting alcohol consumption (due to lesser cost and some religious use).

I'm mostly entertained that you don't think marijuana is already a major recreational drug.

[TheDarkStar]

Honestly, I'm against legalizing it. We already have two major recreational drugs and we definitely don't need a third. Yes, smoking might be more dangerous, but there are still significant effects from smoking marijuana (9% addiction rate, eventual memory loss/damage, general issues associated with long-term stimulant use). Don't forget about lung and related damaged from smoking it (because some people will do that anyway, despite other options) and judgement impairment issues. As for hypocrisy in leaving alcohol/tobacco legal, I'm also for illegalizing tobacco (it has truly gigantic costs to everyone) and for at least limiting alcohol consumption (due to lesser cost and some religious use).

I'm mostly entertained that you don't think marijuana is already a major recreational drug.

I mean legal recreational drugs. Legalizing it makes it even more widespread.

[WillowLuman]

I'm not for substance use, but if alcohol and tobacco are legal, it doesn't make much sense to ban marijuana. The costs of abuse are already affecting us, and the costs of a bloated prison population due to possessions bookings certainly doesn't help. The stuff's already widely available (legally or no) and used, may as well move production into the supervised, legal sphere where it doesn't help line the pockets of the biggest, most violent NGOs in the world.