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[syvarris]

Spoiler: @Renegade (click to show/hide)

That requires us to have microscopic LEDs.  Which is probably possible, I suppose, although they'll be less bright than plasma and therefore need a larger blade, therefore making them slightly less effective at cutting.

Plasma is pretty cheap and safe.  You just need some material to heat, and a source of massive amounts of energy.  Once it's created, it's trapped inside a forcefield and can't escape until the projector explodes, and the grenade going off in your fist will probably be more of a concern than the diffuse microscopically-thin line of plasma which is extending from that grenade.

Spoiler: About monatomic cutting... (click to show/hide)

I still have no idea how this would work.  There doesn't seem to be any consensus online.

We do know that a flat forcefield will cut, because FFs which appear inside other materials sever them.  However, if the blade is equally thick and wide (and considering how thin they are, that's technically a subatomic pillar, rather than a blade) the 'cutting' surface is vastly smaller than the electromagnetic fields which are how atoms interact with each other.  I have no idea how such a field would react to a pillar-shaped distortion the size of an electron going through them, if it even reacts at all.

We might be able to solve it by making it somewhat longer, like a real blade, and them just let the user know which direction it's 'sharp' in based on the shape of the hilt.  But even then, apparently Isaac Asimov wrote a story which involved similar devices which cut things apart on a atomic scale.  He said that an item cut like that would simply bond back to itself, unless it was forcibly seperated.  So, you might be able to bisect a battlesuit, but it might not even notice.

TL;DR: Word of God is required.

@Execute

Yes, but renen's blade used real atoms with real electromagnetic fields.  We don't even know if a forcefield has the same.

[Nikitian]

Oh, yeah, PW mentioned that story when we discussed it. Not that he mentioned any particular Word of God on the topic of how such a blade would work here. And anyway, if we can make it that thin, we can calibrate it to be just thicker, not enough to lose the super-cutting capability, but enough to do away with weird effects like that.

Also, what do you think would happen if we shortened the blade instead of elongating it? As in, right to that same thickness, resulting in, basically, forcefield monowire? (That is hypothesised by me to be possible.)
(And yep, I understand that in this particular case, we would completely lose any way to see the 'blade'; at least when it was two-dimensional, it could have possibly been seen (cameye or any other way; or felt, actually) if it wasn't held parallel to the line of sight (and best if held perpendicularly to it). But that'd be a small price to pay for being able to cut perpendicularly to the 'blade'.

[renegadelobster]

Probably, but I bet in the far flung future that is now, you could get some really bright LEDs that would work. I might also have the feeling that the plasma would increase costs. I dunno. Anyways, my two cents. Shutting up now.

[Egan_BW]

For the problem of blade visibility, why not just sell some cheap IR goggles alongside the weapon?
Would let you see the blade, and could double as poor man's cameyes.

[Parisbre56]

@Paris

since the durability of the hilt is not that important,

Why wouldn't it be important?  If the hilt's broken, it goes off like a bomb.   Yes, we likely wouldn't need to have maximum strength forcefields, but even relatively weak ones will go off like a grenade.  Most users won't have Milnoplate-level armor, so that's a rather bad thing.

You could even make the hilt really flexible, extendible and programmable

None of these things are necessarily possible to do with a projector material. We certainly can have overlapping plates of forcefields, but the inherent resistance they have to each other would likely make a whip or some of your other ideas implausible.

Note that I'm talking about the hilt. You're talking about the projecting material inside the hilt. Two different things.
The hilt simply needs to be sturdy enough. It won't shouldn't be subjected to powerful forces during use. So a telescopic extendible thing with the projecting material in an armoured shpaed-charge-like cocoon in its end would work fine, despite the structural integrity problems that usually plague telescopic things compared to rigid things. Same for a tentacle with the projecting material mounted at the end.

And the answer to the cutting problem is simple. How do forcefields work? They obviously form a sort of barrier that stops certain kinds of energy. We know for a fact that it stops light and matter, possibly other kinds of energy as well. So the question is, does it push matter away? Does it stop it? How? Does it push the large concentration of energy away? Is it something that works relative to the energy involved relative to the forcefields? Could forcefields disrupt electrostatic forces between molecules?
Is such a thing even possible? Yes it is.

We know that forcefields interact with matter, either by pushing it away (space magicky or via normal physics interaction, don't know which) or by stopping it because it is a high concentration of energy (space magicky probably). In either case, that means that if the forcefield is vibrating quickly enough any matter near a forcefield monofilament would be affected, either because the energy of the particles responsible for molecular bonds would be stopped by the forcefield (unless the forcefield is so small quantum effects come into play) or because the matter of said atoms would be pushed away.

And if it turns out that non-vibrating forceblades are mostly harmless, much like non-vibrating monorazors are mostly harmless, then that solves the question of how to sheathe them safely: Put them in a normal sheathe, just in case.

Essentially an upgrade to the mono-razor, since it works on the same principle. The monorazor is a very thin filament that cuts things, but merely cutting would not work. It also heats whatever it cuts and pushes it away via its vibrations, essentially messing up the atoms near whatever it cuts so that they can't reattach as easily.

Unless radio waves can get through forcefields. That means that sufficiently low energy gets through it. If forcefield permeability to energy does not scale with size that might be a problem.

I dunno if you are getting what I'm saying. I have to sleep because I think I have stopped making sense.

[Empiricist]

Finally, Piecewise the GM, Random Number God, and, of course, Steve himself?

That would be easy to deal with, just start throwing things and other things to check armor penetration and armor thickness
Just to be clear, when something like an explosion of blast of heat hits a forcefield, it gets completely redirected (or the field breaks), correct? Couldn't that be used to prevent weapons from overheating by replacing the structural components exposed to heating with shaped forcefields instead?

[syvarris]

Spoiler: Responses to peoples (click to show/hide)

@Nik

Welp, if we're going to go with the smallest thickness which still cuts, then there's not much to say.  If such a size is even large enough to contain bits of plasma, I doubt it's bright enough to be seen regardless.

I doubt there's any real difference between a flat-but-wide monosword, or a wide monowire.  At most, the monowire might be 'larger' and require minutely more energy to shove through something?  I don't really have the faintest idea, and it's probably pointless to discuss it.  It'll need to be asked when we finalize the design with PW regardless. :\

@Renegade

I'm sorry if I came off dismissive or insulting.  I did a bit more research, and you're right, some sort of LED might be better than plasma.  It really would need to be decided by PW, but it's certainly an option, and an option I didn't think of.  Thank you.

@Egan

IR goggles would be a good alternative to cameyes, yes, although they'd have the same restrictions.  If we go with a monoatomic blade, or a blade even somewhat larger than that, it doesn't matter what spectrum you see in--you simple don't have the resolution to see the blade.  In general, I think filling the blade with something opaque is a better idea anyway, because it adds heft.  A heavier sword is better at cutting.

Of course, using an alternative vision mode does mean that your sword would be invisible to most enemies, which is certainly an advantage.

Note that I'm talking about the hilt. You're talking about the projecting material inside the hilt. Two different things.
The hilt simply needs to be sturdy enough. It won't shouldn't be subjected to powerful forces during use. So a telescopic extendible thing with the projecting material in an armoured shpaed-charge-like cocoon in its end would work fine, despite the structural integrity problems that usually plague telescopic things compared to rigid things. Same for a tentacle with the projecting material mounted at the end.

Oh, okay, I was just confused.  I thought you meant a very thin whip which had blades down the entire length of it.  Sorry.  I do agree with you.

We know that forcefields interact with matter, either by pushing it away (space magicky or via normal physics interaction, don't know which) or by stopping it because it is a high concentration of energy (space magicky probably). In either case, that means that if the forcefield is vibrating quickly enough any matter near a forcefield monofilament would be affected, either because the energy of the particles responsible for molecular bonds would be stopped by the forcefield (unless the forcefield is so small quantum effects come into play) or because the matter of said atoms would be pushed away.

I bolded the part which is problematic for me.  I know that if a mono/sub/whatever atomic force saber is reliably solid to atoms, that it will do damage.  But... I have no idea how it really would act.  Actual atoms are effectively, to my understanding, large spheres of electromagnetic force with a tiny speck of matter deep inside at the center.  These electromagnetic fields are solid to each other, but are bound through sharing electrons and other interactions.  When you completely wall one atom from another with a forcefield, completely severing their connections, they are seperated (although they possibly reattach if the forcefield is removed).

What happens if you swipe a thin section between two atoms, rather than a wall?  I want to imagine the atoms like solid spheres of material, which will just be forced aside.  But I know they aren't that, and I know I don't know enough to really say how they'll act.  Maybe a thin forcefield won't even be solid to one of these fields; what if the field 'goes around' the forcefield?  Is that possible?  I haven't the slightest idea!  Maybe if the forcefield is rapidly vibrating, then it'll force the atoms apart.  Or maybe it'll just increase the vibration of the atoms slightly as it passses, I.E. increase their temperature by a few degrees.

Basically, I'm an uneducated idiot who only has a very basic understanding of physics.  And I am aware of that.  If you say "No, syvarris, it would definitely cut." I'll just accept that and stop arguing.

Essentially an upgrade to the mono-razor, since it works on the same principle. The monorazor is a very thin filament that cuts things, but merely cutting would not work. It also heats whatever it cuts and pushes it away via its vibrations, essentially messing up the atoms near whatever it cuts so that they can't reattach as easily.

The monorazor is also, despite the name, much thicker than monoatomic.  IIRC, Bishop actually experimented with thinner monorazor very early on in the game, and started having issues with it only sometimes cutting, and sometimes phasing through matter.

...It possibly could have been someone playing with excessively focused laser rifles, too.  I'm not really certain.  I am certain that monorazor wire is larger than monoatomic, though.

@Empiricist

Forcefields redirect low-energy things, such as a bouncy ball, absorb high-energy things, such as a bullet, and explode when hit with 'too much' energy.  So, you can push around a forcefield with your hands, but it won't even flinch if you shoot it.

In answer to your question, probably not.  Most deforming parts are things like gauss coils, or laser focusing arrays, which have properties aside from being structural.  We could use hexsand cladding as a heat sink though.

[Empiricist]

I take it that it's too damn expensive and finicky to use forcefields as laser focusing arrays?

[syvarris]

¯\(°_°)/¯

Forcefields do 'distort' visible light, but there hasn't been any testing beyond that.  It might be possible to use them in that way, but it probably is vastly too expensive.

[Egan_BW]

@Egan

IR goggles would be a good alternative to cameyes, yes, although they'd have the same restrictions.  If we go with a monoatomic blade, or a blade even somewhat larger than that, it doesn't matter what spectrum you see in--you simple don't have the resolution to see the blade.  In general, I think filling the blade with something opaque is a better idea anyway, because it adds heft.  A heavier sword is better at cutting.

Of course, using an alternative vision mode does mean that your sword would be invisible to most enemies, which is certainly an advantage.

I don't see how the thickness of the blade matters. It's not made of matter, and I believe it blocks all IR radiation regardless of it's thickness.
It would look like a dark spot on IR.

[syvarris]

Oh, yeah, swords which have width but are monoatomically thin would be perfectly visible to anything aside from normal vision.  I've been stuck seeing them as monoatomically thin needles.  My apologies.

[Egan_BW]

Hmm, it might also be possible to make a software program to show where the blade is on the user's visor.

[renegadelobster]

@Syv It's all good, you weren't. Tinker stuff is fun to read, but trying to do it makes my head hurt. Just trying to keep cost down and it simple 

[Radio Controlled]

@Command unit: point taken

A question about blastpistol.
Here's a list of upgrades I wanted to inquire about:
 - Cooling system/more durable case, which will allow it not to melt down after overcharge (there was a talk about fitting in a small coldplate)
 - Integrated laser pointer/flashlight
 - Custom frame (read custom shape, nothing of technical use)
And if all of the above is available, which is likely, is it realistic to expect such an order to be priced 2 tokens?

I was gonna wait with extra options until after prototyping, as after market. First one should be possible, but would be almost useless, since a battery costs 1 token anyway though less melted slag I guess). Would cost 1 or 2 tokens I guesstimate. Second should be free and no problem, just ask am for it. Last should also be possible, but probably not standard, ask am for it.

think this is somewhat backwards, actually.  Modularity reduces cost, because your tanks, APCs, AA vehicles, etc. all use the same production lines.  In trade, it usually lowers the effectiveness of any given vehicle, because none of them were entirely purpose built only for their role.  Radio's correct if you're trying to make fully effective yet also modular vehicles, though.

That's what I meant, higher price if you wanna keep effectiveness the same, because you gain versatility.

[Sean Mirrsen]

Okay, so posting this here so I can have a chance of having the prototype sent to the Sword in exchange for the pyramid artifact.

The PEW Assault Suit, a variant of the AS that has two PEWs integrated into its arms. This reduces the suit's arm strength by half, but still leaves it as strong as a Battlesuit is normally. The cooling is handled by a distributed cooling system, and all of the PEWs' firing mode options still apply. Other integrated AS equipment remains the same.

Spoiler: Chatlog as proof of being cleared by PW (click to show/hide)

[18.04.15 21:45:09] <SeanMirrsen>   Piecewise, re: tinkering. Last time you ducked out to sleep before I could hit you with the PEW assault suit idea.
[18.04.15 21:45:15] <Radio_Controlled>   Our mascot are lemmings.
[18.04.15 21:45:23] <Piecewise>   Whats the idea sean
[18.04.15 21:45:30] <AoshimaMichio>   but our spirit animal is sheep
[18.04.15 21:45:31] <adwarf>   That's a mascot, not the official animal!
[18.04.15 21:45:46] <Illgeo>   Cheat sheep is mascot. Lemmings are members
[18.04.15 21:46:01] <Radio_Controlled>   Our spirit animal is John Travolta.
[18.04.15 21:46:13] <Radio_Controlled>   For fabulous spirit journeys.
[18.04.15 21:46:37] <Caellath>   Wrong kind of journey, I think.
[18.04.15 21:47:03] <Caellath>   Though then again, judging by the amount of drugs the people on ship do...
[18.04.15 21:47:04] <SeanMirrsen>   Basically, remove the "big and bulky" aspect of the PEW, by integrating the weapon into the suit's limbs (forearms, firing through the open palm or over the forearm like the Plasma Stake), and giving the suit a reinforced cooling system that spreads the heat throughout the whole thing.
[18.04.15 21:47:33] <Shaporia>   Fire at someone then tackle them with your hot self?
[18.04.15 21:48:09] <Caellath>   And then have them ding a dang ding your lang long ling long?
[18.04.15 21:48:18] <adwarf>   Set your heat sink to cook mode, fire, and then hug a person
[18.04.15 21:48:24] <adwarf>   Gotta keep alliescros-warm
[18.04.15 21:49:37] <SeanMirrsen>   It'd be an AS with two integrated PEWs that it can use in addition to any other weapon, without need for ammo. With the PEW's biggest problems being slow rate of fire and bulkiness, this would allow its usage (albeit in integrated form) as a proper secondary weapon.
[18.04.15 21:50:10] *   Comrade_P (4f8baaad@107.161.sj.qq) has joined #einsteinianroulette
[18.04.15 21:50:44] <Radio_Controlled>   AS would be considerably slower though.
[18.04.15 21:50:52] <Shaporia>   Heya Comrade.
[18.04.15 21:50:58] <Comrade_P>   Hey
[18.04.15 21:51:17] <Radio_Controlled>   And don't forget a way for the pilot to load heatsinks.
[18.04.15 21:51:21] *   syv (syvarris@ulhbec-201-717-727-278.mycingular.net) has joined #einsteinianroulette
[18.04.15 21:51:26] *   Bolnozem (androirc@37.73.lkj.nli) has joined #einsteinianroulette
[18.04.15 21:51:33] <Radio_Controlled>   Unless you wanna remove those?
[18.04.15 21:51:39] <Radio_Controlled>   Hey people.
[18.04.15 21:52:05] <syv>   Well, that's a...  topic, I guess.
[18.04.15 21:52:07] <Caellath>   The AS needs good propulsion so it can skid-skate like Armored Core's mechs.
[18.04.15 21:52:10] <Shaporia>   Hey peeps.
[18.04.15 21:52:19] <Caellath>   syv: it's actually very accurate.
[18.04.15 21:52:26] <syv>   Yeah, it is.
[18.04.15 21:52:54] <Caellath>   At least sex kills proportionally less people than missions do.
[18.04.15 21:53:11] <Radio_Controlled>   Missions make less new people though.
[18.04.15 21:53:17] <SeanMirrsen>   I'd like it to use active, non-expendable heatsinks. Kinda like regular spacesuits do.
[18.04.15 21:53:46] <Radio_Controlled>   Hmm. You do have the larger surface area, but I'm not sure that'd be enough.
[18.04.15 21:53:47] <syv>   @Cael Mobility variant could theoretically do that already.  Full variant is unlikely to ever get rockets, because I don't want to cut anything from the design.
[18.04.15 21:53:47] <lambdabot>   Unknown command, try @list
[18.04.15 21:53:50] <SeanMirrsen>   It can sink heat much better if its whole body is a radiator.
[18.04.15 21:54:03] *   Illgeo has quit ()
[18.04.15 21:54:36] <Radio_Controlled>   And you'll need an outer layer that can act as sink, to prevent internal components from overheating.
[18.04.15 21:54:44] <syv>   Hexsand?  Hexsand doesn't even need to be external to sink heat.  And it's non-expendable.
[18.04.15 21:54:49] <SeanMirrsen>   I think it would heat up over time if the pilot just keeps firing two shots a minute.
[18.04.15 21:55:15] <SeanMirrsen>   (Kinda like Battlemechs. Essentially making the PEW a Large Laser. )
[18.04.15 21:55:18] <Caellath>   It's supposed to be a sidearm of sorts, no?
[18.04.15 21:55:22] *   Illgeo_el_yakoff has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
[18.04.15 21:55:26] <Caellath>   Instead of a primary weapons system.
[18.04.15 21:55:36] <SeanMirrsen>   In that variant, it's supposed to be a secondary weapon, yes.
[18.04.15 21:55:37] <Shaporia>   Heavy laser, side arm?
[18.04.15 21:56:01] <SeanMirrsen>   Insofar as it can only fire once a minute, times however many arms the suit has left.
[18.04.15 21:56:12] <Radio_Controlled>   Sean, do you know where exactly the heat in a PEW comes from?
[18.04.15 21:56:17] <syv>   Like battlemechs?  Can I glue fifteen of them to a titan, then squat in a lake and snipe other mech's legs off?
[18.04.15 21:56:18] <Radio_Controlled>   The magic internal bits?
[18.04.15 21:56:38] <Caellath>   syv, you squatter.
[18.04.15 21:57:26] <SeanMirrsen>   The internal bits are basically a mangled HEP surrounded by hexplate mechanisms that compress the beam output. The heat apparently comes from feedback with the HEP from doing so.
[18.04.15 21:57:59] <SeanMirrsen>   (Piecewise never /actualy/ explained that. But that's what I am assuming.)
[18.04.15 21:59:06] <Radio_Controlled>   I'm curious how you'll squeeze that bulky thing into an arm.
[18.04.15 21:59:07] *   Bolnozem has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[18.04.15 21:59:36] <Radio_Controlled>   Also, I know hexsand is resistant to laser and such, but how good does it conduct heat again?
[18.04.15 21:59:36] *   Illgeo_el_yakoff (androirc@37.73.lkj.nli) has joined #einsteinianroulette
[18.04.15 21:59:48] <Shaporia>   I still like the idea of spinal mounted railguns on ships.
[18.04.15 22:00:11] <Caellath>   We should mount railguns on our newbies' spines.
[18.04.15 22:00:19] <Caellath>   And use them as weapons platforms.
[18.04.15 22:00:27] <Caellath>   Perfect.
[18.04.15 22:00:30] <Piecewise>   Hmm
[18.04.15 22:00:37] <Piecewise>   Well that would work partially sean
[18.04.15 22:00:51] <Shaporia>   "Fire!" "I have -2 to con!" "Nooooooo!"
[18.04.15 22:01:04] <Piecewise>   but it would probably result in weakened arms for the suit since you need to make room in the limbs for the weapon itelf
[18.04.15 22:01:05] *   syv has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[18.04.15 22:01:06] <Radio_Controlled>   AFK for a while, grabbing some lunch.
[18.04.15 22:01:19] *   sy (syvarris@ulhbec-201-717-727-278.mycingular.net) has joined #einsteinianroulette
[18.04.15 22:01:28] <Caellath>   Who said you'll be the one doing the firing if you're bad at con?
[18.04.15 22:01:29] <sy>   &Radio hexsand literally eats plasma.  It seems to either destroy heat, or nigh instantly diffuse it to the entire layer of HS.
[18.04.15 22:01:31] <SeanMirrsen>   That'd be okay, it can still be as strong as a regular battlesuit, what with the upgrades.
[18.04.15 22:01:35] <Caellath>   The assaultsuits will use you as a weapon
[18.04.15 22:01:52] <Piecewise>   Thats fine then sean

Remaining issue: Cost. Regular AS is 15 token, regular PEW is 12, so two PEWs plus AS should probably cost more than 15. Thinking of bringing it back up to 20. Council?