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[re4der]

Beware, spoilers below.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Recently I have been reading some df wiki archives, and came to conclusion that hell (maybe except v0.23) is getting less and less interesting place with every release. Let's take a look - v0.28 - totally epic (at least from description) rooms with evil engraving, chained and caged creatures.. you know, kind of stuff you expect to see in hell.. Next releases - v0.31 and v0.34. Hell became quite boring flat cave, saved just by proceduraly generated demons and demonic fortresses. Now we have v0.40, and the only thing that remained from hell is.. well, swarm of demons wandering through not particulary interesting cave.

Why do you think Toady keeps nerfing hell?

[hops]

Yeah, I really hope HFS gets worked on more. Every time I read about people colonizing it without getting the fortress slaughtered I die a little inside.

[Redzephyr01]

I'd love it if hell had more variety than just "boring cave with glowing pits."

[StagnantSoul]

I used to fear fighting my way to hell, and the first time I did it, it was an amazing achievement. Now, all I'm doing is opening a new cavern layer with some animals wandering around a flat plane. Hell has gotten boring.

[MDFification]

I believe Toady wrote somewhere that the Demonic Fortresses were not intended to be removed forever, but that he had no intention of adding them back in in the near future.
I speculate this is because they potentially collide with Dwarven deep-site placement.

[malvado]

I believe Toady wrote somewhere that the Demonic Fortresses were not intended to be removed forever, but that he had no intention of adding them back in in the near future.
I speculate this is because they potentially collide with Dwarven deep-site placement.

I doubt that's really a problem to be honest , but it seems development wise Toady tests out things in cycles and removes things he is not happy with , fixes them and adds them inn again later to be tested again. Rinse and repeat till he feels its the way he wants it.

Personally im pretty happy with the game as it is, even though HFS are less fun there's more variety out there so on the whole : YEAH!

[Jervill]

Version .28, more commonly known as 40d was completely boring and extremely easy for most players.  Rather than swarms of demons, it was something like 10 that could easily be defeated by a few Legendary Wrestlers.  Only the 2D version and 2010/2012 had the fun, difficult hell.

[Witty]

It's not about difficulty, it's about interesting and cool looking homes for demons. The 40d pits were far more interesting and detailed than the current boring cavern of slade that exits now.

I 100% agree with you OP. Keep in mind of course that the HFS has become less fun every release because it has become less "hard-coded", to butcher a phrase. The carefully designated awesome hell pits with prisoners and all that had to be replaced to accommodate the game's growing procedural nature.

Sadly, all one can do is either wait for Toady to become interested in this stuff again, or hope that the DFhack crew can mod more aspects of the game to make stuff like this a reality again.

[Quietust]

Version .28, more commonly known as 40d was completely boring and extremely easy for most players.  Rather than swarms of demons, it was something like 10 that could easily be defeated by a few Legendary Wrestlers.  Only the 2D version and 2010/2012 had the fun, difficult hell.

Actually, the 2D versions were more like 40d than you think - they had the same types of demons, the same attack pattern (sneaking forth from the pits once you discover them), and a limited number (exactly 10, though of random types instead of all the same), and afterwards the pits were totally safe.

[StagnantSoul]

I think it would work best like this- have hell be a 8-10 level thing, with a large castle, stocked full of demons at the bottom, with a massive, bigger than forgotten beast sized one at the bottom in a "throne room" full of traps. A tower full of stairs extends from one side of an outer wall, and you have to literally siege hell if you want the demons to stop coming. The massive attack still happens, but less massive. Problem is, demons have a perfect way to continuously assault your fortress, and have them be sneak attacks, like 40D, consisting of small groups. Maybe once a month? If you want this to end, siege hell. Charge down the stairs, take a courtyard, and kill the lord.

[smjjames]

Sort of like the demon fortresses that got removed.

Also, with the removal of the demon forts and the fact that the subterranean critters die out, it's now basically pointless to wander the caverns.

Yes the cavern critters dying out problem existed in 34.11, but the demon forts made it worth the trip.

[Robsoie]

It's been a while i didn't intentionally get into the HFS , the main reason is that it was ending the game.
Oh no, i don't mean ending the game due to difficult demons climbing up to the surface while annihilating your dwarves and showing no respect for your work.

But ending the game because it meant you were going to experience unavoidable FPS death.

Is that FPS death situation improved in 0.40.x ?

[smjjames]

Actually, in my experience, after the initial FPS dragdown from the demons zerging in, it's been fine in 34.11.

No idea on 40.xx though.

[StagnantSoul]

I only lost 3 fps upon cracking hell. And it would be more fortressy than the demonic fortresses, like a true castle.

[Sergarr]

It's not only getting less fun, but also less hidden, what with all the [SPOILER STUFF] right on the surface.