Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Dorsidwarf]

Deus
Because I forgot to put it in the actual set of reads. Plus, The second set of reads is four minutes from the actual vote (4:58). Typing on a phone is much slower than on PC.

Post-post-edit: Last sentence of previous post should read "2) The reads took ages to make".

For further explanation of that, the first set of reads took me ~ an hour to do, due to constant flicking back and forth to check the thread (On an iPad) and watching TV. During that time, an argument happened, which changed my reads, so I re-did them. After editing the previous set of reads, I posted them, then realised I hadn't actually commented on the newly updated reads of the players, which I then did. This included a vote , on you.

Does that help clear things up a little for you?

Previous question:
Yes, by "clam up", I meant you started to become less emotional and more game logic-y.

[Deus Asmoth]

Ok, but what is it that makes the earlier posts seem so emotional to you? Because I'm still not seeing it.

[Scripten]

Dorsidwarf

Cheetar:
For reasons why Deus currently has my lynch vote - they were getting real upset about having some votes on them, so I voted them and launched an attack. They seem to have clammed up now, oddly, which could mean they're just in DAMAGE CONTROL mode, or could be, say, receiving advice over scumchat or from their scum IC, warning them to calm down. Make of that what you will. However, looks like krusader got replaced, so...

I wouldn't say he got particularly heated, though. Of the two of us, I'm the more emotional player. That said, his replies stank of wiggling around until the very last second he couldn't support his case any more.

4Maskwolf : Hi! Good to see you replacing in, scumnuts. I've been suspicious of your predecessor, so you get to start off in the Sin Bin. Can you shed light on his erratic behaviour, hypocrisy, and lazy reason-stealing bandwagon voting?

First off, I'm going to advise against scumhunting in this manner. Replacing into a slot doesn't afford you any more knowledge of what's in the mind of the player you're replacing, save for if they have a power role or are scum. Though it may seem fruitful to pursue this line of hunting due to the latter case, the questions can be easily discarded by even moderately competent scum.

I would recommend attempting to interact with 4maskwolf directly to build reads on his behavior.

Also, could you reply to this question, please:

Hah, no. I'm currently typing up a long post and I wanted to get conversation rolling ASAP. Also, that was literally five(!) RL hours you're talking about. I was out on a date with my girlfriend and didn't want scum to tie up the vote at the last minute, as I explained.

Do you think that a counter-wagon was likely to arise in that time?

Deus Asmoth

Scintillant is piggy backing his vote again, with a very dubious and hypocritical argument (again). He voted for Shamrock for making excuses while using newbie mistakes as an excuse when it suited him, and his argument for voting for me is perceived indecisiveness in spite of him changing his vote any time it looked like he was making a stand alone day one. He has yet to vote for someone that doesn't already have at least one vote on them. This guy is scum.

Scintillant is more likely to be newbtown than newbscum. Look at his day 2 contributions, specifically.

Scripten very eager to dismiss some of Scintillant's mistakes as those of a new player, doesn't seem to want to do the same for others. Very insistent that a certain question was not loaded and got kind of emotional about it. He's trying to justify this by saying that to claim otherwise is insulting his play, yet he doesn't have a problem with trying to insult other people (and trying to convince them that it's a compliment that he's trying to get them mislynched (?)). I think he's scum, but I'm not as certain about it as I am with Scintillant. Scripten and Scintillant are my bet for the scumteam, in any case.

I'll let you in on a little secret. If you want to find associative tells, don't look for where the links are. Look for where players are trying to look like they aren't aligned. That's where scum will usually be hiding.

I'm insistent that you're misinterpreting my play and that it's frustrating. I've explained myself plenty of times, and everyone else gets it except for you. That you continue to push and refuse to relent a poorly thought-out case makes me think you are scum. I apologize if I've insulted you, but I explained exactly what my thought process was. I'm not attacking your play because I'm a big meanie. I'm attacking it because it's scummy due to your reactions. That is, if you are town you are playing in an anti-town manner without realizing it even with more than two players telling you so. (I mention that there are more than two because that means you have guaranteed town in that group.) Judging by your playstyle and a general read on your personality, I don't believe that this is the case, so the alternative is that your scum.

The mask bros: Crusader got pretty heated when Shamrock was questioning him, and said that his vote against the Comrade wasn't an OMGUS even though he didn't actually provide any reasons for the vote until asked for them. Wolf hasn't given me much to go on yet, but on the other hand he hasn't tried to get me mislynched yet, so that's a plus. Slight lean towards scum over the Shamrock vote.

The bolded bit is a massive red flag. Why are you more happy to aim at players that have been attempting to push your lynch?

Also, you're very insistent in saying that your lynch is a mislynch, DA. Are you hoping people will interpret it as a townslip?

[Deus Asmoth]

It's not that I'm more eager to go after people who are suspicious of me, it's that Mask is examining the cases of people who are voting for me. If he were scum, he'd have no reason to do that (unless you want to get into WIFOM).

As for calling it a mislynch, I call cats cats as well. I like to call things what they are. I may need to correct myself about this later, but I'm near certain that you've only referred to it as a mislynch when it's pointed at you as well.

[Scripten]

It's not that I'm more eager to go after people who are suspicious of me, it's that Mask is examining the cases of people who are voting for me. If he were scum, he'd have no reason to do that (unless you want to get into WIFOM).

Scum also want to look like town. I wouldn't so readily discount another player as scum.

As for calling it a mislynch, I call cats cats as well. I like to call things what they are. I may need to correct myself about this later, but I'm near certain that you've only referred to it as a mislynch when it's pointed at you as well.

This may be true, actually. However, it's all about the context. Would you say that I've pushed the idea that my lynch is a mislynch?

[Deus Asmoth]

I wouldn't. That's no reason for me not to remind people that killing me won't help them, though.

Assuming Mask is scum, what does he stand to gain by keeping one town player alive over another? Most of the town need to wind up dead for him to win in any case, and if people thought I was still suspicious on day 3, they'd also have to wonder why Mask didn't think I was suspicious as well. It's a bit of a risky play, surely?

[Cheeetar]

Assuming Mask is scum, what does he stand to gain by keeping one town player alive over another? Most of the town need to wind up dead for him to win in any case, and if people thought I was still suspicious on day 3, they'd also have to wonder why Mask didn't think I was suspicious as well. It's a bit of a risky play, surely?

Deus Asmoth: As scum, what does Scripten gain by confirming the lynch on Comrade Shamrock?

Oh dear. The question you found so strange earlier you are asking to defend 4maskwolf. I find this suspicious, Deus Asmoth.

[Cheeetar]

To put some content behind my prod: Do you yourself see the similarity in your argument and my questioning earlier?

[Dorsidwarf]

Ok, but what is it that makes the earlier posts seem so emotional to you? Because I'm still not seeing it.

You got defensive suddenly when Scripten started up on you, and your posts had the feel of "emotionally involved" to them, with accusations ( Some of which were false) contained within, whereas lately it's like you've stepped back and are making posts from a different angle.

Scripten:
No, I don't think that any form of counter-lynch was likely to develop in the five hours between post and Day End. Comrade was being seriously scummy, and failed to argue a single, coherent point to try and save himself, and didn't even bother to claim. That's why I think it's odd that you plonked that vote there, since your reasoning was "To stop the scumteam forcing a nolynch". This seems like bullshit, since two people suddenly tying up the vote near to day end would basically paint a gigantic target on the scum, saying "Lynch me!"

Additionally, what made you believe that none of the people already voting comrade were scum? Especially since both the scum would have to vote the same person (Scillinant or SBC at the time of your post) in order to tie it, and several people weren't voting.

Finally, I understand you were preoccupied with RL at the time, but what makes voting someone you previously werent even FOS-ing who is the leader for the vote by two players to "prevent vote tie", barely an hour after masked posted his hilariously bad vote on him, the best possible use of your lynch?

________________________
In reference to 4mask greeting - I'm reminding him that his predecessor was under flak from me, and was generally a gigantic bag of scumnity, in order to let him get that he is not in a comfortable position, has earned a vote via inheritance, and needs to hold the quality baton a lot higher than Krusader did if he really is town.

[Deus Asmoth]

I never said your question was strange. I answered it and you told me my answer was suspicious due to WIFOM. Now you're telling me that the question itself is also suspicious, and that's just weird. I'd already acknowledged the WIFOM in this question in an earlier post, Scripten told me not to discount Mask so easily, so I asked him what Mask could gain from that play as scum.

Scripten, I've looked at Scintillant's day two posts. This may be inexperience on my part, but I don't see what it is that makes you think he's new rather than scum.

[Cheeetar]

I say you found it strange because you never really answered it to my satisfaction. I'm not saying the question is suspicious- I'm saying it's suspicious you're using such a similar argument, except not as a question but as a defence for 4maskwolf.

[4maskwolf]

Dorsidwarf:

4Maskwolf : Hi! Good to see you replacing in, scumnuts. I've been suspicious of your predecessor, so you get to start off in the Sin Bin. Can you shed light on his erratic behaviour, hypocrisy, and lazy reason-stealing bandwagon voting?

No, I can't.  I can't shed any light on masked_krusader's thought process: only he can do that.  As Scripten said, I am not knowledgable as to the mind of my predecessor.

Here's a question for IC answering: Is there ever a situation outside of MyLo when a No Vote can be justified ( barring nonstandard set ups? )

In a bm: not really.  Most setups where all roles are known mean that a no-lynch is just a waste of a day, since you don't get a roleflip to base things on.  D1 no-lynches are particularly egregious, since you've essentially just run in circles and given the scum a free kill without gaining any solid info.  So in a bm, I'd say no.
(Voice of original 4maskwolf from beyond the grave, since that one was an IC).

Unvote Cheeetar:
You basically answered my concerns in your second post, though it still bugs me that you would give a blanket "Votes without solid evidence are bad" rather than the barely longer "Votes without solid evidence and scumhunting are bad".

You want reads?  Here's my reads at the moment, without searching back through the game too much.

Scripten: Intelligent, playing well, and one of the more experienced players to start the game.  I haven't played with him enough to know his meta, so I'm going to give him a slight town lean.
Deus Asmoth: Defensive, but given my own play-style I can't really fault him for it (I play my best as town when under pressure).  Posts make fairly good sense, and the speed at which people jumped on his lynch when apparently masked_krusader had been playing erratically the day before (and thus deserving attention) is disturbing.  Neutral read barring further information.
Dorsidwarf: Made an easy mistake to make in questioning me (asking about my predecessor), otherwise I don't have much to go on.  Neutral read.
Cheeetar: I'm still bothered by his comment at the top of page 19, as well as the fact that he's only addressing the person he's voting for when challenged (I didn't even realize he was voting for me prior to the votecount).  Slight scum read.
notquitethere: Uses previous games as evidence, which only works to a certain extent (and for pities sake, DON'T tell the scum how to fool you.  While I appreciated it as a first-time scum, it's not helpful as town at all).  Has made (one?) post today, so I don't have much to go off of.  I've never been able to get a good read on him either.  Null read.
I forgot someone... time to check the votecount
Scintillant: Null, I haven't really read their posts yet.

I wouldn't. That's no reason for me not to remind people that killing me won't help them, though.

Assuming Mask is scum, what does he stand to gain by keeping one town player alive over another? Most of the town need to wind up dead for him to win in any case, and if people thought I was still suspicious on day 3, they'd also have to wonder why Mask didn't think I was suspicious as well. It's a bit of a risky play, surely?

Don't be so quick to assume.  I think most people who've played with me would agree that I play my best games as scum (minus the original CYOM as town, but that wasn't my playstyle so much as doing math).  While I wouldn't say to dismiss such things outright, as they can be indicators of benevolent intent, it is important to take everything with a grain of salt and remember that scum want to be seen as town, and so will attempt to mimic town actions.

In reference to 4mask greeting - I'm reminding him that his predecessor was under flak from me, and was generally a gigantic bag of scumnity, in order to let him get that he is not in a comfortable position, has earned a vote via inheritance, and needs to hold the quality baton a lot higher than Krusader did if he really is town.

Your point is noted.  Actually, I'm quite comfortable where I am, I play my best under pressure (often after cracking first and yelling at people, but not this time).

I never said your question was strange. I answered it and you told me my answer was suspicious due to WIFOM. Now you're telling me that the question itself is also suspicious, and that's just weird. I'd already acknowledged the WIFOM in this question in an earlier post, Scripten told me not to discount Mask so easily, so I asked him what Mask could gain from that play as scum.

Hypothetical scum 4mask stands to gain exactly what you're giving me.  Town cred.  A small buffer zone and a small amount of trust.  All of these things are helpful to scum.

And of course, as I kept adding responses to posts that came up more posts appeared.  Six posts while I was typing, in total.

[Dorsidwarf]

Relevant section in above post should read "two hours", not " an hour". I misread a timestamp, my apologies.

[Scintillant]

Deus Asmoth:

Scintillant, one other thing: what's the difference between Shamrock's defense of misreading some of Scripten's posts and you justifying some of your actions by saying they're newb mistakes? Why is it scummy for Shamrock to call himself stupid but not so for you to call yourself a newb?

Now that I think about it, there isn't really a difference. That was hypocritical of me and it was my fault.

If you think it's suspicious for me to appear indecisive in one post, wouldn't it be considered suspicious that you changed your vote as many times as you did on day one?

Why did you want another extension to day 1 when the person you were voting for was going to get lynched, and why weren't you quizzing anyone else if you had misgivings about voting Shamrock?

Why did you want me to find questions you missed for you rather than reading back through the thread yourself?

Each time I changed my vote, I had a reason for doing so, namely receiving satisfactory answers to my questions. In your case, however, I see the indecisiveness as scummy. You said earlier that that's just how you talk when you're pressed for answers. Why would you need to be indecisive, and thus, in my mind, evasive, when you're being questioned? Only scum would need to be evasive.

I wanted a D1 extension because I saw that there were a few questions directed towards me that I wouldn't have the time to answer before the day ended. Also, I don't see any place where I express misgivings about voting Comrade.

When I reread the thread, I missed your question, so I asked you to find it.

Cheeetar:

I don't like how quickly this Deus Asmoth lynch is forming.

Why is this? How is a lynch forming quickly bad?

Scintillant: Do you believe Deus was telling the truth about being unsure earlier, and if so, is being unsure about things good enough as the sole reason to vote for somebody?

I don't think Deus was telling the truth about being unsure. In my opinion, town play should be loud and confident. I think I saw it referred to somewhere as "boozed up and looking to lynch someone". Unsureness, I feel, is a scum tell. And no, unsureness is not good enough of a reason, but Deus, as Scripten said earlier, has also consistently been misreading Scripten's posts to make an inaccurate representation of Scripten.

Reads coming soon.

[4maskwolf]

Cheeetar:

I don't like how quickly this Deus Asmoth lynch is forming.

Why is this? How is a lynch forming quickly bad?

A rapidly-forming lynch is often an indication of scum players jumping on a mislynch.  Usually, on any given mislynch you will find some (but not all, unless there is only one) scum player on the lynch, so oftentimes the second or third person ends up being scum.  While this is not always the case, it happens often enough with bandwagons that it perks people's ears up when one happens.