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[Cheeetar]

Masked Krusader: Who do you think is now the most likely scumteam, with the elimination of the two players you thought were scum candidates on Day 1? Were mafia on the CS lynch (how many?)?

Cheeeetah

Hey NQT. Good to have a quick replacement. Are you a mini-IC? If not, why is such an experienced player in the beginners' game?

I think we should probably be pretty glad that we even have so many people willing to replace in(and I don't just say this because I'm also a replacement myself.)

Thanks chief. How much stock do you put in town player's reads? I haven't thought in great depth on the matter, but my intuition here is that they can be a bit of a red herring, as individual town players tend to lack any special knowledge or insights (especially those town players that allow themselves to get mislynched on day 1).

It's not as valuable to me as my own reads, but for all players collectively it's of more value than me posting my own reads- it has great value as a source that can't be second guessed in terms of what a town player found suspicious and not suspicious.

[Deus Asmoth]

NQT: I didn't put a vote down by the end of day one because I was fairly sure Shamrock wasn't scum and didn't want to vote for him, but I wasn't certain enough about Crusader to vote for him. Perhaps I should have voted for him anyway, but I wasn't sure enough.

Scintillant,You voted with Shamrock against Masked, then against Shamrock, then decided he was town, then voted for him again, and you were always second or third to the party. I'm getting the feeling that you were looking for a lynch that you couldn't be blamed for but no one could say you band waggoned onto.

Crusader, you have a few questions from day 1 that need answers.

[Deus Asmoth]

EBWOP: Oops, no you don't. Masked, you waited. Until people asked you for your reasoning on the Shamrock vote before you tried to justify it with something other than him being scum. Why didn't you give your reasons forvoting up front if it wasn't an OMGUS vote and you weren't bandwaggoning?

[notquitethere]

Deus

NQT: I didn't put a vote down by the end of day one because I was fairly sure Shamrock wasn't scum and didn't want to vote for him, but I wasn't certain enough about Crusader to vote for him. Perhaps I should have voted for him anyway, but I wasn't sure enough.

Uh huh, and you didn't try to convince others to avoid what you considered a mislynch?

Cheetah

It's not as valuable to me as my own reads, but for all players collectively it's of more value than me posting my own reads- it has great value as a source that can't be second guessed in terms of what a town player found suspicious and not suspicious.

That's reasonable enough. Will you press everyone to give reads before the end of Day 2 then?

[Cheeetar]

Cheetah

It's not as valuable to me as my own reads, but for all players collectively it's of more value than me posting my own reads- it has great value as a source that can't be second guessed in terms of what a town player found suspicious and not suspicious.

That's reasonable enough. Will you press everyone to give reads before the end of Day 2 then?

Sure. I regret not asking Day 1- as I'm sure you've noted, my general contribution wasn't too good during it. I acknowledge that I should have gotten reads out of players (although I probably wouldn't've been able to get anything out of 4maskwolf in the approximately 50 minutes he had as a player.)

[Deus Asmoth]

NQT I told Scintillant I didn't see any difference between his earlier defences and Shamrock saying he had made a mistake in reading Scripten's posts, and I put pressure on Crusader when his only justification for thinking Shamrock was scum was that he thought Shamrock was scum. That said, Shamrock had been pushing some fairly weak cases beforehand and I wasn't confident enough to put my neck on the chopping block if he did turn out to be scum.

As for not voting, if I had put a vote on Masked or Scintillant at a point when it wouldn't have made any difference, how would that have made me seem any less scummy to you?

[Scripten]

That said, Shamrock had been pushing some fairly weak cases beforehand and I wasn't confident enough to put my neck on the chopping block if he did turn out to be scum.

Vote Deus Asmoth

I will return to older posts to answer them in a bit, but this is scum 101. Newbie town players may be cautious, but not as cautious as newbie scum players.

[Dorsidwarf]

I'm noticing a lotta this "quick vote no time will do content l8r", Scripten.
Are you planning to contribute more, since you surely can't still be busy with whatever occupied you while you were voting at D1 end, hmm?

[Scripten]

I'm noticing a lotta this "quick vote no time will do content l8r", Scripten.
Are you planning to contribute more, since you surely can't still be busy with whatever occupied you while you were voting at D1 end, hmm?

Hah, no. I'm currently typing up a long post and I wanted to get conversation rolling ASAP. Also, that was literally five(!) RL hours you're talking about. I was out on a date with my girlfriend and didn't want scum to tie up the vote at the last minute, as I explained.

Do you think that a counter-wagon was likely to arise in that time?

[Deus Asmoth]

Scripten, you realise that there's a difference between being cautious and not being suicidal, right? If I'd been defending Shamrock tooth and nail and he'd flipped scum, that'd be a guaranteed day two lynch for me barring someone waving a flag over their head and shouting that they were scum and you should lynch them. Why would I risk that for someone I've already said I wasn't 100% sure of?

By the way, your vote first, give reasons later strategy are kind of making it look like you're hoping other people will jump on the bandwagon before you have to come back with your answers, so you'll be safer from questioning.

[Scripten]

Spoiler: "OOC" (click to show/hide)

I think we should probably be pretty glad that we even have so many people willing to replace in(and I don't just say this because I'm also a replacement myself.)

Nothing to do with the game, but I'm glad you guys are here. I just hope you're not scum, cuz I know you're both good at playing town.

NQT

Scripten

While I agree with your analysis here, keep in mind that the non-voters in two of those games were not voting precisely because they were active lurking.

I'm not sure why that would be a caveat to my point. Without mitigating circumstances, I find nonvoting to be one of the stronger scum tells (though bearing in mind it's rare for both scum to be nonvoting, usually it's just one at a time).

Not so much a caveat as an addendum. You find the non-voting more suspicious because your play is more based around vote analysis while I find active lurking more suspicious because I focus more on player motivation and psychology. It's two sides to the same coin.

You seem to be discounting the fact that Scintillant is also a new player. This push seems to be passive aggressive and I'm not sure how fond I am of it.

It's ironic that you think this push is passive aggressive when I'm pointing out a passive aggressive way that people get mislynched. It's something a player of any experience level might do regardless of alignment and I wouldn't use this point as a basis for deeming someone scummy. It's just a good technique if used by scum and so I tend to see it as bad form for town players.

It is passive aggressive. I can't tell if you're trying to garner more information from Scintillant by suggesting lightly that he was manipulating the vote or if you are trying to link his push back to me by suggesting that it was my questioning that led to him making that push. I don't necessarily think you are scummy for it, I just don't like that push and I'd have liked to see it be a little more direct.

Do you foresee lynching a player on stronger grounds today?

Of course. Every day brings with it more information and thus stronger grounds for lynches.

SBC's response seems to me to smack of honesty.

Hindsight is 20/20. Self deprecation is a null tell. I already had a scumread and an answer that doesn't affect the game state coupled with a lack of any change in activity just cements it.

I can see why you'd object to people answering that one, it gives too much power to the scum if they take into account those kind of questions.

Exactly, but where do you think the suspicion for pro-scum questions being fielded should go? I'm certainly not going to scumread a newbie for answering an IC's rolefishing question.

I wasn't aiming for a complete deconstruction of everyone's cases, but a quick overview. To see what warranted further investigation. I'm glad you're defending yourself though. That's promising. And given your disavowal of active-lurkers, when can we expect some active content from you today? Mostly just answering questions and voting lurkers is pretty much page one of the Being Scummy Bible.

When will I start being active? Right now and for the rest of the day. This is the exact sort of falsified posturing that irritated me about Comrade Shamrock's play. Please don't insinuate that I've not been active nor that my play has been purely reactive. It has not been, and representing it that way is disingenuous. It's how scum go back in later days to quote singular posts and push erroneous cases on players to garner mislynches, and is especially fruitful when coming from town.

Deus Asmoth

NQT I told Scintillant I didn't see any difference between his earlier defences and Shamrock saying he had made a mistake in reading Scripten's posts, and I put pressure on Crusader when his only justification for thinking Shamrock was scum was that he thought Shamrock was scum. That said, Shamrock had been pushing some fairly weak cases beforehand and I wasn't confident enough to put my neck on the chopping block if he did turn out to be scum.

To expand more on the reason for my vote, this is a blatant attempt to harvest towncred out of a townie flip. I note also that you removed your vote from another townie when his wagon started gaining momentum. Deus Asmoth, you're wriggling like caught scum.

Scripten, you realise that there's a difference between being cautious and not being suicidal, right? If I'd been defending Shamrock tooth and nail and he'd flipped scum, that'd be a guaranteed day two lynch for me barring someone waving a flag over their head and shouting that they were scum and you should lynch them. Why would I risk that for someone I've already said I wasn't 100% sure of?

Nope. If you have a townread getting lynched, then you should be pushing for a different wagon. Maybe you're just cautious for being new, but I'm currently thinking that you're cautious because of your alignment and not your experience.

By the way, your vote first, give reasons later strategy are kind of making it look like you're hoping other people will jump on the bandwagon before you have to come back with your answers, so you'll be safer from questioning.

Yes, because I've been dodging questions all game.

[masked_krusader]

Ugh, request replacement.  Sorry for the (5th?) replacement, but I'm gonna have to bow out.

[Comrade Shamrock]

Bah...... Humbug!

Have fun. 

[Deus Asmoth]

Deus Asmoth

NQT I told Scintillant I didn't see any difference between his earlier defences and Shamrock saying he had made a mistake in reading Scripten's posts, and I put pressure on Crusader when his only justification for thinking Shamrock was scum was that he thought Shamrock was scum. That said, Shamrock had been pushing some fairly weak cases beforehand and I wasn't confident enough to put my neck on the chopping block if he did turn out to be scum.

To expand more on the reason for my vote, this is a blatant attempt to harvest towncred out of a townie flip. I note also that you removed your vote from another townie when his wagon started gaining momentum. Deus Asmoth, you're wriggling like caught scum.

Scripten, I think we can all agree that what you just posted is a big pile of crap. I said several times that I thought Shamrock was town both times people were voting for him. I also find it interesting that you're more interested in going after me than in one of the other people who got Shamrock lynched, though perhaps you're just hoping that people will forget that you're the one who started trying to get him lynched in the first place. As for removing my vote from SBC, it sure is a shame that I can't point out that you did exactly the same thing and also started the vote wagon on him in the first place... Except that's exactly what you did. Is this a double standard on your part or are you just scum hoping for another easy lynch? Who knows.

Scripten, you realise that there's a difference between being cautious and not being suicidal, right? If I'd been defending Shamrock tooth and nail and he'd flipped scum, that'd be a guaranteed day two lynch for me barring someone waving a flag over their head and shouting that they were scum and you should lynch them. Why would I risk that for someone I've already said I wasn't 100% sure of?

Nope. If you have a townread getting lynched, then you should be pushing for a different wagon. Maybe you're just cautious for being new, but I'm currently thinking that you're cautious because of your alignment and not your experience.

By the way, your vote first, give reasons later strategy are kind of making it look like you're hoping other people will jump on the bandwagon before you have to come back with your answers, so you'll be safer from questioning.

Yes, because I've been dodging questions all game.

You're certainly dodging that statement, because that reply has nothing to do with what I said. I didn't say you were dodging questions, I said that you're hoping to avoid them altogether by not providing reasons for your votes until someone else has already started defending your position for you. You did it with Cat with your loaded question, you did it with Shamrock and you'd probably have taken your sweet time with your 'reasons' for voting for me if Dorsi hadn't called you on it.

[Scripten]

Scripten, I think we can all agree that what you just posted is a big pile of crap.

"We" as in the scumteam? I'm sure you both do.

I said several times that I thought Shamrock was town both times people were voting for him. I also find it interesting that you're more interested in going after me than in one of the other people who got Shamrock lynched, though perhaps you're just hoping that people will forget that you're the one who started trying to get him lynched in the first place.

If you've noticed, I've been scumreading you for most of the game. My read of SBC was off, obviously, but my read on you is not predicated upon him being scum.

Also, kindly prove that I'm the one who started the wagon. If you mean this, then show me how a blatant misrep is a pro-town action. Actually, maybe you should do that anyway, since you're currently twisting my play to be something it is not to fit your agenda.

As for removing my vote from SBC, it sure is a shame that I can't point out that you did exactly the same thing and also started the vote wagon on him in the first place... Except that's exactly what you did.

Except my vote was moved to another player so as to avoid a no-lynch. Yours moved because the wagon had gained traction and may have implicated you as being part of a mislynch. I started the wagon because I was scumhunting, which is apparently the biggest scumtell you can dig up.

Hint hint: Scumhunting is not a scumtell. Scum don't scumhunt because they CAN'T. They already know the scumteam.

If you care to show how my play was not actual scumhunting, then kindly do so.

You're certainly dodging that statement, because that reply has nothing to do with what I said. I didn't say you were dodging questions, I said that you're hoping to avoid them altogether by not providing reasons for your votes until someone else has already started defending your position for you. You did it with Cat with your loaded question, you did it with Shamrock and you'd probably have taken your sweet time with your 'reasons' for voting for me if Dorsi hadn't called you on it.

...

Really? MY QUESTION ABOUT CAT'S PLAY WAS NOT LOADED THANK YOU BYE.

Alright, let's lay this out so that people stop spouting this nonsense. When I asked the question about Cat's play, my accusation was already made. I considered him to be scum because he had not contributed to the game state and had not been scumhunting. I told the rest of the town to look at his play so that they could corroborate my statements with real evidence. He ended up being town, but it's not my fault if a player decides to throw the game and just doesn't participate.

Comrade Shamrock pushed crummy cases and pursued stuff that made him appear to be reaching. If you thought he was town, you could have come up with a counterwagon on someone you thought was scum. However, you didn't. You just sat there and waited for a townie to get lynched while "defending" them with anemic little quips. That's massively scummy. Town want to lynch scum. Scum don't care who gets lynched as long as it's not them.

As far as putting off my questions/cases for others to make them, prove it. Just saying something is true does NOT make it true. Provide evidence to back your gak up or get out.