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Author Topic: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России  (Read 265366 times)

Knit tie

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #1965 on: January 12, 2015, 07:02:50 pm »

@Erkki: Plenty, since Poroshenko and his neonazi co. are the ones who are terror-bombing Donbass, not the other way around.

Also, Russia has taken on alliances before and beat them, as evidenced by, among other battles, the first siege of Sevastopol.

EDIT: But I think we are going into the "my country can beat your country" territory here, and that makes for very pointless discussions, so let's not continue this any further.

« Last Edit: January 12, 2015, 07:10:36 pm by Knit tie »
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Erkki

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #1966 on: January 12, 2015, 07:10:10 pm »

@Erkki: Plenty, since Poroshenko and his neonazi co. are the ones who are terror-bombing Donbass, not the other way around.

Also, Russia has taken on alliances before and beat them, as evidenced by, among other battles, the first siege of Sevastopol.

Without Russia's intervention there had been none to significantly less violence. Nobody ever even suggested separations of Crimea or Donbass peacefully, they were just occupied by armed forces and in the latter area Ukraine hit back with the right it had. Many sources site over a million homeless already, thousands of dead, who knows how many wounded, maimed, traumatized?

And my goodness, are you really comparing modern day world, warfare, socioeconomics and Russia within it to what, 1850s was it?
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Helgoland

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #1967 on: January 12, 2015, 07:15:07 pm »

@Helgo: And these people blame me for supporting Putin. We are not so different, you and I...[/jokebutnoseriously]
We aren't, we truly aren't. The only difference is that my side has the biggest economies on the planet, the leading cultural and scientific centers, a functioning political system, and the support of the international public opinion and of the international law, while all your side has is rusting nukes, a conventional army that's only useful for bullying small non-aligned neighbors, and a masochistic readiness to suffer.
I also have a bigger penis than you.
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Arguably he's already a progressive, just one in the style of an enlightened Kaiser.
I'm going to do the smart thing here and disengage. This isn't a hill I paticularly care to die on.

smjjames

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #1968 on: January 12, 2015, 07:20:10 pm »

Oh come on Knit Tie, stop spouting the conspiracy theory shit, don't make me invoke Occams Razor.
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Knit tie

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #1969 on: January 12, 2015, 07:25:42 pm »

I think blaming Russia for the bombing of Donbass is like blaming Chechnya for the bombing of, well, Chechnya: it started the conflict, but it in no way, shape or form did it force the other side to shell civilians. Or you may compare it with the Filipino-American war, instead, where Filipinos started the insurgency and Americans responded by slaughtering the civilians, and I don't think you can blame the Filipinos for those deaths.

And all of that was assuming that Donbass wasn't going to rebel even without Russia doing anything, which is very unlikely but still is in the realm of speculative history and thus impossible to prove or disprove decisively.

Oh come on Knit Tie, stop spouting the conspiracy theory shit, don't make me invoke Occams Razor.
What conspiracy theory? About the American involvement in the Euromaidan?

Helgo, I love you. In a completely platonic way, but still. I am tempted to make a post about how you completely underestimate both the length and the circumference of my reproductive organ, but I consider myself to be above such childish internet activities, however traditional they may be, so how about we flame virulently and pointlessly about the comparative worth of our respective countries a bit, instead?
« Last Edit: January 12, 2015, 08:02:43 pm by Knit tie »
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Helgoland

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #1970 on: January 12, 2015, 07:47:33 pm »

I love you too, Knit, but sadly I have to inform you that according to five minutes' worth of googleing, my countrymen also have bigger penises on average than your countrymen.
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The Bay12 postcard club
Arguably he's already a progressive, just one in the style of an enlightened Kaiser.
I'm going to do the smart thing here and disengage. This isn't a hill I paticularly care to die on.

FearfulJesuit

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #1971 on: January 12, 2015, 07:56:40 pm »

Deutschland Über-Phallus?
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@Footjob, you can microwave most grains I've tried pretty easily through the microwave, even if they aren't packaged for it.

Knit tie

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #1972 on: January 12, 2015, 07:57:35 pm »

According to a questionable study I found in a disreputable medical journal, my countrymen have, on average, much thicker penises than your countrymen, and are also much better at using them, thus making them superior. Also your countrymen are fat and ugly, that's common knowledge.
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Helgoland

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #1973 on: January 12, 2015, 08:01:04 pm »

Those aren't my countrymen, those are Bavarians!
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The Bay12 postcard club
Arguably he's already a progressive, just one in the style of an enlightened Kaiser.
I'm going to do the smart thing here and disengage. This isn't a hill I paticularly care to die on.

Knit tie

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #1974 on: January 12, 2015, 08:08:53 pm »

Ha! So you are not denying that my countrymen have, on average, thicker penises than your countrymen and are also better at using them, thus making them superior?

Also, my countrymen's penis sizes are brought down by all the Buryats and Bashkyrs you Westerners keep lumping together with pure, orthodox Russians! Everybody knows that Asians have small penises, that's why Cio-Cio San chose Pinkerton.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2015, 08:11:59 pm by Knit tie »
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Helgoland

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #1975 on: January 12, 2015, 08:25:05 pm »

Ha! So you are not denying that my countrymen have, on average, thicker penises than your countrymen and are also better at using them, thus making them superior?
I did not adress that point, but I shall do so now:
It is well-known that among the great German virtues are punctuality, efficiency, and cleanliness. Even with an inferior tool, a German craftsman or engineer will produce marvels of human ingenuity; why should we be any less skilled with the superior tools attached to us? Add to this that I live on the left bank of the Rhine, a region one might call without being all too dishonest the north-east of France; are not the French known for their excelling in the sensual arts?

And to adress your other point, since avoiding any mention of it like a gentlemen appears not to be an option: It may be true that the statistics for Russia are skewed by the ethnically diverse makeup of the Russian population, and while one might be inclined to talk about the many Russians that have come to Germany to skew our statistics (and the many Germans that have come to Russia a century ago or even longer, skewing yours) there is a much bigger factor that you are disregarding: The most prevalent drinks! Russians exclusively drink, as is well-known ever since General Ripper told us so, pure grain alcohol; Germans however prefer the more rich and satisfying taste of beer. While the spirits consumed in the east have had practically all components save for alcohol and water rectified out, beer contains all manners of plant-derived substances, among them some that are chemically and biologically similar to female hormones. These substances have a measurable effect on the way the human body behaves; and yet we still lead the statistics! I am sure that the poor Russians who have migrated to my beloved country and are adapting to the social and cultural norms of drinking will encounter trouble reproducing and - eventually - die out.
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The Bay12 postcard club
Arguably he's already a progressive, just one in the style of an enlightened Kaiser.
I'm going to do the smart thing here and disengage. This isn't a hill I paticularly care to die on.

smjjames

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #1976 on: January 12, 2015, 08:26:00 pm »

Why are we comparing penis sizes all of a sudden?

Which btw, is a derail we need to immediately get off of.
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Frumple

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #1977 on: January 12, 2015, 08:27:51 pm »

Why are we comparing penis sizes all of a sudden?

Which btw, is a derail we need to immediately get off on.
To the first, it's because russian self-repression isn't enough to suppress their manlust. To the second, yeah, that seems to be what's happening.
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Culise

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #1978 on: January 13, 2015, 01:00:32 am »

But I wonder, what pragmatic reasons might there be for Poland and Baltics to be equally vocal against Russia? Fear of Russian imperialism and attack is what I've read about so far, but I don't think that this is entirely objective, given that Russia right now has absolutely no imperial ambitions whatsoever, rather it is trying to fight the USA's influence extending into Ukraine. So such fears are understandable, yes, but not perfectly rational.
That's actually exactly it, and after the situation in Ukraine, the Baltic fears in particular are in fact set in two major, very recent, very extant precedents - Crimea and the Donetsk Basin.  All three Baltics states have significant Russian minorities which could be used as catspaws in any potential crisis.  In September, FSB agents apparently entered Estonia and kidnapped Eston Kohver, an act openly revealed once he was secure in Russian custody by parading him for the televised media, and done two days after Obama's visit to Estonia and the reinforcement of NATO troops in Poland; he remains in Russian custody, where they plan to try him for espionage.  Russia has also asked Lithuania for assistance in resuming prosecutions against Lithuanian draft dodgers who violated Soviet law before the fall of that state, an act Lithuania declined; while this is purely my speculation and only just over one month old, Lithuania is also the home of a brand spanking new LNG terminal supplying Norwegian gas for cheaper than Russia presently offers, essentially undercutting the Nordstream (reference also all of the political brouha surrounding that from the Baltic states, so the antipathy is mutual), adding a minor economic dimension.  Latvia, in turn, has also alleged that Russian agents are working to support Russophone organizations in their nation, actively fomenting unrest, though I mention it last and least because there is little actual evidence for such assertions beyond Russian money going to pro-Russian groups (which is perfectly legal).  Russian rhetoric has also escalated against the three nations, using language and forms rather similar to that used against Kyiv. 

To digress briefly on this topic, Estonian and Latvian treatment of the Russian minority in their nations has been for some time been questioned, especially by Moscow, but also by independent parties such as Amnesty International.  It isn't on the scale of systemized or tremendous legal oppression, but primarily due to the resumption of pre-annexation citizenship laws in these nations, which does not recognize the (de facto, albeit not de jure) Russification of these nations over the 51 years between annexation and independence and thus effectively alienated these people.  Both nations require these stateless persons to take a language test in order to gain citizenship, an act decried as unfair.  In recent years, there have also been moves in Estonia and Latvia to mandate education in their national languages, which has drawn significant protest from Russophones, especially in Latvia.  That said, however, it is feared that just as Russia took advantage of unrest in Crimea to send in "polite men," they may choose to disregard or underestimate NATO and send similar active military provocateurs into the Baltic states in a coup de main, especially in light of Russian rhetoric since Crimea.  While NATO is highly unlikely to simply stand idly by as three member states are annexed, that is not something that the Baltic states can blithely assume Russia believes, and as such, they've maintained their staunch opposition in order to prevent a similar take-over in their own nation by demonstrating solidly that NATO and the EU will not permit salami tactics in the eastern frontier - a NATO firmly opposed to Russia, as opposed to wavering, is one that will serve as a deterrent and convince Russia that the Baltic states will not be as easily consumed as Crimea was. 

Poland has far fewer Russians in their territory, but memories of Russian domination, in one form or another, for centuries (excluding the all-too-brief interwar period) since the Partitions have a significant political resonance domestically, and Poland has since 1991 cultivated good relations with Ukraine; Poland, like Sweden, was the chief advocate of closer relations between Kyiv and Brussels.  In this case, I do not believe there is as direct an immediate threat (such would wait until the Baltic states have been secured if one assumes the worst of Russia, and a systemic, well-reasoned policy of gradual encroachment), but the capability exists in Russia, and many elements of strategic planning involve not only accounting for what may be done, but what can be done in a worst-case scenario where Russian ambitions are not limited, but in fact an attempt to resume hegemonic influence over their historical dominion for the last few centuries.  In fact, Polish opposition to Russian moves has taken place in significant part against their economic interests (witness the vast losses in Polish agriculture due to the recent counter-sanctions) precisely because they believe their security interests are an overriding factor in the political calculus.  Polish fears are also partially rooted in the popularity of several of Dugin's theories (especially his concepts on the systematic marginalization of Europe, including securing a "special status" for Poland) and the 2009 military manoeuvres during West-09 (including the simulated use of tactical nuclear weapons against Poland).  In other words, Polish aims are also to ensure their own security from Russia; this is why they offered to host the US missile shield in 2007, and why they oppose Russian military interventions in Ukraine.  So long as Russian involvement in Ukraine was limited to economic and political machinations around pro-Russian elements like Yanukovich versus pro-West elements like Yushchenko and Tymoshenko, Poland likewise limited their involvement in that manner; the second Russia changed the rules of engagement in Ukraine is the second Poland likewise requested NATO consultations and pressed for active sanctions, replacing the previous policies of economic engagement Prime Minister Tusk rather favored.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2015, 01:03:28 am by Culise »
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Knit tie

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #1979 on: January 13, 2015, 02:24:30 am »

That's some post, Culise, I'm impressed.

Still, my point stands: Poland and the Baltics are fearing irrationally. Everything Russia did was a rational, predictable response to the Euromaidan coup in Ukraine, saying that Russia has started to throw its weight around on a whim is misguided, in my opinion. Russia has absolutely no desire to do anything with the Baltics or Poland - the train has left, so to say, unless Russia grows genuinely crazy, which it hasn't done outside of propaganda so far, it realizes that it has no chance of changing anything there, unlike in Ukraine.
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