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[Guardian G.I.]

Well, if Yeltsin had approval in the single digit and still won elections, that's not a democracy...

As I said here before, the United States of America plopped him up, because they feared that the communist or nationalist rule in Russia would become a threat to American hegemony. They should be thanked for their major contributions in making Russia an un-democracy.

The rule of Yeltsin and pro-Western liberals was challenged twice: in 1993, when the Supreme Soviet of Russia denounced the neoliberal economic reforms and later on openly rose up against him, and kind of seriously in 1996 during the presidential elections. In 1993, Yeltsin, acting with the unspoken approval of his Western backers, crushed the uprising with tanks. In 1996, Yeltsin was bailed out by American spin doctors, who helped him recover his single-digit rating, and his oligarch friends, who controlled many major media outlets, and even then there were claims that Yeltsin allegedly had to commit election fraud in order to stay in office.
Without foreign support, the liberals in control of Russia would have to take the opposition demands into account and amend their policies or be removed from office.

[Erkki]

So, are we back in evil America's conspiracies being behind Russia's troubles again?

Sounds awful lot like a certain European country in the 1930s.

[Guardian G.I.]

So, are we back in evil America's conspiracies being behind Russia's troubles again?

Sounds awful lot like a certain European country in the 1930s.

Pre-WW2 Nazi Germany's propaganda does not automatically make other American covert involvement elsewhere after WW2 less real.

[Sheb]

True, but in this case, the American involvement seems to be limited to apparently saying a few kinds words in private, and not preventing Yeltsin from hiring Americans PR firm. By that metric, every election ever has been rigged.

[wobbly]

Well, if Yeltsin had approval in the single digit and still won elections, that's not a democracy...

In 1996, Yeltsin was bailed out by American spin doctors, who helped him recover his single-digit rating, and his oligarch friends, who controlled many major media outlets, and even then there were claims that Yeltsin allegedly had to commit election fraud in order to stay in office.

So what's so much more likeable about Putin's spin doctors, oligarch friends & control of major media outlets...

Edit: You never get rid of spin doctors & media games, it's common to all politics. At least with 2 or more sides using spin against each other like in a democracy it's more obvious they're all talking shite.

[Knit tie]

Well, if Yeltsin had approval in the single digit and still won elections, that's not a democracy...

In 1996, Yeltsin was bailed out by American spin doctors, who helped him recover his single-digit rating, and his oligarch friends, who controlled many major media outlets, and even then there were claims that Yeltsin allegedly had to commit election fraud in order to stay in office.

So what's so much more likeable about Putin's spin doctors, oligarch friends & control of major media outlets...

The fact that unlike Yeltsin, Putin is a rather good, benevolent ruler who is not at all a drunkard.

[Sergarr]

You guys should try democracy once, instead of just slapping the democracy label on something entirely unrelated and deciding you don't like it.

Blame Russian self-claimed "liberals" that have done exactly that.

Or are you thinking that Russians are a homogenious mass of pro-Putin?

[Knit tie]

You guys should try democracy once, instead of just slapping the democracy label on something entirely unrelated and deciding you don't like it.

Blame Russian self-claimed "liberals" that have done exactly that.

Or are you thinking that Russians are a homogenious mass of pro-Putin?

Every single modern Russian politician wants to or already is hogging power, like Putin.

What they don't do, unlike Putin, is being competent administrators and sane decision-makers while hogging power.

[Sergarr]

>sane decision makers

>taking over Crimea and then trying to pretend that it was legal

yeah no

[Comrade P.]

>sane decision makers

>taking over Crimea and then trying to pretend that it was legal

yeah no

Well if he didn't even pretend it was legal everyone in world would go batshit crazy, sorry for my phrasing.

[mainiac]

The fact that unlike Yeltsin, Putin is a rather good, benevolent ruler who is not at all a drunkard.

This is the same Putin that you say you oppose and that we are strawmanning you for saying you like him.

[Askot Bokbondeler]

He opposes him less than the alternatives

[mainiac]

Yes he opposes the good benevolent leader whose behavior he unfailingly rationalizes.

[Askot Bokbondeler]

Or you could assume he meant relatively good and benevolent instead of trying to portray him as a hypocrite. You've been generally detrimental to the atmosphere of the thread, why?

[mainiac]

I mock those who mock others?