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Author Topic: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России  (Read 262292 times)

Comrade P.

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #1275 on: December 26, 2014, 03:27:30 pm »

I figure you all know I live in Russia. To be said, I'm tired of Ukraine discussion - I can hardly say something, sitting here in Moscow.
Get used to it - the only two topics that get discussed in this thread are "Ukraine" and "Russia's economy". Everything else gets quickly sidelined by the firmly-opinionated regulars (including yours truly) who are almost exclusively the ones to post in this thread.

I see that. That's why I mostly read.
Don't get me wrong, I would very much like to discuss something else other than politics or economics, but the discussion just keeps going back to those two topics.

But hey, maybe we can beak the trend together!

First, I get what you mean, I just refrain from further commenting seeing that there is a person who represents an opinion close enough to mine (which is you :D).

Second, maybe we do. Unfortunately, I do not have any ideas what to talk about, because winter exam session.

EDIT: Oh yes, it will.
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Sigs

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Knit tie

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #1276 on: December 26, 2014, 03:48:49 pm »

I have to admit it, I am actually too confrontational to leave all the posts about politics alone, I feel downright compelled to try to push my point of view on people, while in reality I could just make one post about "how I consider all the shady stuff done by Russia (international law and treaty ignoring annexation/reunification/secession enabling of Crimea, rebel support) to be less bad than all the shady stuff done by Poroshenko and co. (USA-supported unconstitutional overthrow of elected president followed by installation of thoroughly corrupt oligarch government, Chechnya treatment of Donbass, right-wing ultraradicals and neo-Nazis in positions of power, totalitarian policies right down to repressions against political opposition and ideological domination of media) and that I also think that all the talks about Russia expanding further into Europe are just baseless fears and that the USA has eagerly joined Kyiv in opposing Russia due to political reasons" and be done with it, but noooooooo, I have to make an ass out of myself and argue ceaselessly and without any hope of resolution with people who are just as opinionated as I am, and who most likely consider me to be an unreasonable fanatic and thus put little value in my arguments, and moreover with whom I am sometimes so eager to argue that I do not formulate my arguments properly before posting them, leading to me providing further evidence that I am an unreasonable fanatic.

EDIT: Non-politeconomical post about Russia: Mankind shall know no limits.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2014, 03:52:29 pm by Knit tie »
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Comrade P.

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #1277 on: December 26, 2014, 04:00:52 pm »

Well, this was supposed to be a discussion after all, which means it might dynamically change your opinion as it goes, so maybe the static representation of your opinion is useful only once in a while, though a whole new tantrum of quarrellings it will start inevitably.

And hell yeah, Russia now can even more into space. Looks like we are the only ones who still care how to take thing from Earth to space, while others are more concerned with what to do in space. That's good for us, we are probably going to be the spaceport. Like in sci-fi :D
« Last Edit: December 26, 2014, 04:04:33 pm by Comrade P. »
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Knit tie

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #1278 on: December 26, 2014, 04:10:37 pm »

Well, this was supposed to be a discussion after all, which means it might dynamically change your opinion as it goes, so maybe the static representation of your opinion is useful only once in a while, though a whole new tantrum of quarrellings it will start inevitably.
I know, but I don't think it's fair that I should consider my opponents' arguments when, in my most likely erroneous opinion, they mostly dismiss or outright refute mine. So I keep doggedly arguing, despite the fact that people I argue with most likely think the same thing about me.

EDIT: Oh, and I forgot to mention Crimea. I think that it's just an excuse for the current sanctions, the reasons for them are all purely political.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2014, 04:13:01 pm by Knit tie »
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Comrade P.

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #1279 on: December 26, 2014, 04:23:37 pm »

Well, this was supposed to be a discussion after all, which means it might dynamically change your opinion as it goes, so maybe the static representation of your opinion is useful only once in a while, though a whole new tantrum of quarrellings it will start inevitably.
I know, but I don't think it's fair that I should consider my opponents' arguments when, in my most likely erroneous opinion, they mostly dismiss or outright refute mine. So I keep doggedly arguing, despite the fact that people I argue with most likely think the same thing about me.

EDIT: Oh, and I forgot to mention Crimea. I think that it's just an excuse for the current sanctions, the reasons for them are all purely political.

Yeah, I hear that a lot. I hear that the reason behind it is that contract with China - we're about to trade oil with them without dollars involved. Rouble to yuan, yuan to rouble. No dollars between them. Guess who's pissed.
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Sigs

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Knit tie

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #1280 on: December 26, 2014, 04:42:15 pm »

Well, this was supposed to be a discussion after all, which means it might dynamically change your opinion as it goes, so maybe the static representation of your opinion is useful only once in a while, though a whole new tantrum of quarrellings it will start inevitably.
I know, but I don't think it's fair that I should consider my opponents' arguments when, in my most likely erroneous opinion, they mostly dismiss or outright refute mine. So I keep doggedly arguing, despite the fact that people I argue with most likely think the same thing about me.

EDIT: Oh, and I forgot to mention Crimea. I think that it's just an excuse for the current sanctions, the reasons for them are all purely political.

Yeah, I hear that a lot. I hear that the reason behind it is that contract with China - we're about to trade oil with them without dollars involved. Rouble to yuan, yuan to rouble. No dollars between them. Guess who's pissed.
Another point of view, the one that I hold, is that the USA is just afraid of Russia becoming a "hegemon" - a fear as unfounded and irrational as that of "evil Americans" in Russia. If USA really cared about countries breaking international laws, it would deal with a whole lot more of cases than just Crimea. Also, it's not hard to argue that Crimea itself was perfectly eager to separate from Ukraine. But that doesn't prevent Russian internet from being full with stuff like "You stole Crimea, filthy fucking katsapy, now suffer!", "Russians are slaves and cattle, incapable of lynching the Kremlian filth for invading sovereign countries", "we are being punished for Crimea" and so on.
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Comrade P.

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #1281 on: December 26, 2014, 04:51:44 pm »

Yeah, Russian social media is full of shit right now. I can only see two opinions there now: "Glorious Reunion, Rightful help to the East (of Ukraine), Hail Putin" and "Economy is fucked, Russia invades things, Down with Putin - the only solution". I cannot find a source which would give a more... deliberated view. So I start with not believing both radical sides.

What's the thing about hegemony? Hegemony over what? Former soviet republics? Ahem. Europe? They got their Germany. Asia? Pfft. Far from that.
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Sigs

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smeeprocket

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #1282 on: December 26, 2014, 04:53:41 pm »

What would you consider an in between or measured opinion, this seems like a very divisive issue.

Also, I am mostly here to read, I know very little about this, though I think perhaps Putin is overstepping.

He has a great PR team tho, really plays off the badass villain really well.
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Knit tie

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #1283 on: December 26, 2014, 05:10:14 pm »

What would you consider an in between or measured opinion, this seems like a very divisive issue.

Also, I am mostly here to read, I know very little about this, though I think perhaps Putin is overstepping.

He has a great PR team tho, really plays off the badass villain really well.
I think that Putin has an awful PR team. Mr. Saker describes it here, and he tends to be rather smart if you ignore all the rants about Zionism.

An in between option would be something that is extremely uncharacteristic of Russian and Russia-themed debates in general. You are either a pro-Russian putzriot or an anti-russian liberast. People who are neither and are still on the internet tend to be rare enough to require extensive searches.

If you want, though, I can concisely summarise my point of view for you.

Yeah, Russian social media is full of shit right now. I can only see two opinions there now: "Glorious Reunion, Rightful help to the East (of Ukraine), Hail Putin" and "Economy is fucked, Russia invades things, Down with Putin - the only solution". I cannot find a source which would give a more... deliberated view. So I start with not believing both radical sides.
This man gets it.
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Comrade P.

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #1284 on: December 26, 2014, 05:12:55 pm »

What would you consider an in between or measured opinion, this seems like a very divisive issue.

Also, I am mostly here to read, I know very little about this, though I think perhaps Putin is overstepping.

He has a great PR team tho, really plays off the badass villain really well.
Yep, divisve it is.

Well, you got him that bond villain image over there. From what I see around here he is either idolized or demonised. Some people tend to attribute all the good things happening to country to him, others blame him for every goddamn thing they aren't fond of. Once again, I think both views are wrong.
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Sigs

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miljan

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #1285 on: December 26, 2014, 05:27:32 pm »

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Knit tie

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #1286 on: December 26, 2014, 07:46:34 pm »

What would you consider an in between or measured opinion, this seems like a very divisive issue.
Anyway, let me try my best to give my (hopefully measured) opinion about the events so far, in chronological order:

Spoiler: Textwall (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: December 26, 2014, 08:00:40 pm by Knit tie »
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Helgoland

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #1287 on: December 26, 2014, 08:13:42 pm »

This is the Russia Watch Thread, right? In the spirit of and - if you close your eyes almost shut - following the letters of the thread title, I'd like to say that I got an exhibition catalogue from a Malevich exhibition that used to be on display in the Bundeskunsthalle, in my home town. The guy's frikkin awesome. If our countries ever go to war, I'll try to get the High Command to not bomb any museums containing his works.
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Arguably he's already a progressive, just one in the style of an enlightened Kaiser.
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #1288 on: December 26, 2014, 08:22:39 pm »

Quote
After Yanukovich fell, however, the new government quickly proved itself to be vocally anti-Russian, even more corrupt and outright totalitarian
Empty words are so empty.

Even if they tried they wouldn't be more corrupt It is impossible.
And totalitarianism in Ukraine can be found only in Russian television. Together with fascist junta

Quote
"Holodomor", is widely advertised and stated to be a genocide of Ukrainians at the hands of Russians (even assuming that the famine was deliberately manmade, which is extremely debatable, the Soviet leadership at that time was multi-national, the official list of Holodomor organisers presented by Ukraine contains only two Russians)
Any worthwhile and\or official source call it Soviet or Communist genocide. But lets be honest, Russians were majority in USSR. Russian brought Soviet rule to Ukraine by winning a war.

Russian custom to dilute all Soviet crimes by "not only Russians lived in USSR" or "Stalin and co have different nationality" Argument is pathetic. Order to start a Holodomor arrived from Moscow. Order to start purges in 1937 arrived from Moscow. Order to kill Poles at Katyn arrived from Moscow. Order to invade Finland arrived from Moscow. Order to deport Chechens and Crimean Tatars arrived from Moscow. And you Russians made nothing to stop that kind of orders coming from your capital. You happily followed all that shit.

PS. Hitler was an Austrian, so, by your logic, blaming Germans for Genocide is plain wrong

PPS, Why I waste my time speaking with Russian television?

___________________
Quote
I'd like to say that I got an exhibition catalogue from a Malevich exhibition that used to be on display in the Bundeskunsthalle
He is not a Russian artist. He is a Pole who was born in Ukraine.
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Knit tie

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #1289 on: December 26, 2014, 08:24:35 pm »

This is the Russia Watch Thread, right? In the spirit of and - if you close your eyes almost shut - following the letters of the thread title, I'd like to say that I got an exhibition catalogue from a Malevich exhibition that used to be on display in the Bundeskunsthalle, in my home town. The guy's frikkin awesome. If our countries ever go to war, I'll try to get the High Command to not bomb any museums containing his works.
If our countries ever go to war, Eurasia will be an ashen, radioactive waste.

But speaking of Russian painters, what do you think about Kuinje?
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