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Author Topic: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России  (Read 264496 times)

a1s

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #990 on: December 17, 2014, 09:11:44 pm »

USSR still had to import quite a lot of food, IIRC mostly grain, from its rival USA for a couple of decades right in the middle of Cod War, from 1970s. I guess Ukrainian black soil wasnt enough to feed everyone.
Huh, so according to Wikipedia they have fixed that. As of 2012 Russia imports some meat and fruit, but they finally got grain production high enough that there's an exportable surplus (there's $6 billion of wheat alone).
My respect for Russian agriculture has gone up quite a bit. Now I'm only wondering what a "peasant farm" is?
A farm with peasants in it.
As opposed to what? Nobles?
The article claims that there are 3 types of farms in Russia:
The "Corporate" farm (which, due to obfuscation, is a common class for actual businesses and former state farms no one wants to reform)
The "Household" farm (which are individually owned)
And the "Peasant" farm, about which it's only known that there's a law from 1990 allowing them to exist.
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Sergarr

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #991 on: December 17, 2014, 09:15:46 pm »

Peasants was a class of population back in USSR. They were pretty distinctive from other classes. In early USSR, they didn't even had passports, thus rendering them unable to move large distances from their home without breaking the law.

I think that got remedied later, but I can't remember when exactly.
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a1s

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #992 on: December 17, 2014, 09:20:27 pm »

Peasants was a class of population back in USSR. They were pretty distinctive from other classes. In early USSR, they didn't even had passports, thus rendering them unable to move large distances from their home without breaking the law.
Are those the 10% they didn't stop enslaving? Because that sounds pretty serf-y. :P

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikita_Khrushchev#Agricultural_policy
It was his idea to try to grow up corn in a cold weather. It backfired.
So, fun fact, guess what the 3rd largest "vegetable" export of Russia is? (in 2012, all my data is from 2012)
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Sergarr

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #993 on: December 17, 2014, 09:25:10 pm »

The peasants could become workers by moving into cities. By doing that, they gained the full rights of citizen of USSR.

In Russian empire, there wasn't any room up for a peasant-slave. He was a legal property of his/her owner and had to obey their every wish.

USSR system was more advanced by light-years.
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Dutchling

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #994 on: December 17, 2014, 09:27:00 pm »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it the Russian Empire that abolished serfdom in Russia, and not the USSR?
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a1s

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #995 on: December 17, 2014, 09:30:56 pm »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it the Russian Empire that abolished serfdom in Russia, and not the USSR?
Bourgeois lies! (They essentially didn't. Newly minted free peasnats were expected to pay damages for being freed, making what used to be a legal obligation into a financial one.)

The peasants could become workers by moving into cities. By doing that, they gained the full rights of citizen of USSR.
A cunning plan, except moving to a city (presumably without filling some kind of worker/student quota) was, as you point out, illegal.
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Culise

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #996 on: December 17, 2014, 09:36:55 pm »

You're not wrong; the Czar abolished serfdom half a century before the October Revolution, as part of the general trend by Russian reformers to favor a shift of social and economic systems towards the (classically) liberal conception of Europe.  That said, the immediate consequences in which serfdom was abolished can actually be compared to the legally-enforced abolition of slavery in the United States and Brazil.  In particular, while the 1861 reforms made provisions for land to be granted to certain classes of serfs, house serfs remained landless, and the land they received was chosen by the primary landowners (who obviously preferred to keep the best land themselves), meaning that many who received land did not receive enough to live off of, and were also expected to pay for it if they wished to keep the entirety of it (else they would only receive half).  Reforms of passport and taxation systems to allow them greater financial security and mobility never materialized, either.  This led to tenancy issues very similar to, say, sharecropping in the US South, and a peasant class that, while nominally self-sovereign, was still effectively bound to the mir and, by extension, volost they lived in.  The pressures behind this would not be solved until 1917 to the early 1920s, leading to the famous cry of "Land, bread, peace" during the Russian Revolution.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2014, 09:45:23 pm by Culise »
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Sergarr

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #997 on: December 17, 2014, 09:42:29 pm »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it the Russian Empire that abolished serfdom in Russia, and not the USSR?
Bourgeois lies! (They essentially didn't. Newly minted free peasnats were expected to pay damages for being freed, making what used to be a legal obligation into a financial one.)

The peasants could become workers by moving into cities. By doing that, they gained the full rights of citizen of USSR.
A cunning plan, except moving to a city (presumably without filling some kind of worker/student quota) was, as you point out, illegal.
Well I do know that there was a massive influx of people moving from the villages into the cities, so obviously it has been made legal in some way.

The Soviets weren't stupid enough to deprive themselves of more workers, after all.
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Culise

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #998 on: December 17, 2014, 09:52:18 pm »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it the Russian Empire that abolished serfdom in Russia, and not the USSR?
Bourgeois lies! (They essentially didn't. Newly minted free peasnats were expected to pay damages for being freed, making what used to be a legal obligation into a financial one.)

The peasants could become workers by moving into cities. By doing that, they gained the full rights of citizen of USSR.
A cunning plan, except moving to a city (presumably without filling some kind of worker/student quota) was, as you point out, illegal.
Well I do know that there was a massive influx of people moving from the villages into the cities, so obviously it has been made legal in some way.

The Soviets weren't stupid enough to deprive themselves of more workers, after all.
They weren't stupid enough to deprive themselves of their agrarian base in a time of...ah, let us charitably call it "reform," either.  Stolypin's reforms in 1905 allowed peasants to hold their own passports, but Stalin reversed these trends as part of the collectivization reforms, denying passports to the majority of agrarian workers in order to compel them to remain on the collective farms.  That said, there were still ways out; higher education (for which relatively few qualified, due to the woeful state of rural primary schools when contrasted with their urban counterparts) and the military were options of choice, and significantly contributed to the hemorrhaging of labor from the kolkhoz.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2014, 09:55:14 pm by Culise »
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Sergarr

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #999 on: December 17, 2014, 10:14:55 pm »

If there was one thing Soviets did right, though, it was education.
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mainiac

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #1000 on: December 17, 2014, 10:16:22 pm »

Sergarr, sweetie, please calm down. You are like my evil twin or something - we have the same views, mostly, but you profess them by ranting and hollering.

Less then 24 hours after the Toad is in the thread and you are already insulting other posters.
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smjjames

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #1001 on: December 18, 2014, 12:01:03 am »

Sergarr, sweetie, please calm down. You are like my evil twin or something - we have the same views, mostly, but you profess them by ranting and hollering.

Less then 24 hours after the Toad is in the thread and you are already insulting other posters.

Insulting? no, somewhat condescending? yes

USSR still had to import quite a lot of food, IIRC mostly grain, from its rival USA for a couple of decades right in the middle of Cod War, from 1970s. I guess Ukrainian black soil wasnt enough to feed everyone.

Cod War? What Cod War? heh, yes I know you mean cold war, just ribbing ya on the typo.
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Baffler

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #1002 on: December 18, 2014, 12:15:22 am »

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Knit tie

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #1003 on: December 18, 2014, 12:17:41 am »

Speaking of Russian serfdom abolition, Nekrasov wrote a poem about it.
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Sheb

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Re: Russia Watch Thread/Ветка о России
« Reply #1004 on: December 18, 2014, 02:21:52 am »

I must say Knit Tie, your post made me want really hard to just post something snarky and condescending. I don't have the time now, but I'll write a correct answer to it later.
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