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[Knit tie]

"you are a stupid believer of propaganda a disconnected from reality conspiracy theorist?" And I am tempted to respond in kind, to state with such incredulous amusement or fiery indignation that he is but a fool, a trousered ape, an overfed capitalist lackey who cannot see reality behind the hamburger grease upon his brain, a miserable, pathetic bug whose empty yapping crashes uselessly against the fortress of my ego."

And you, sir, are a true poet.

Why, thank you.

Yes, it's a conspiracy you're espousing. No, the US didn't cause the unrest in Ukraine. It's currently Russian military men dying for Putin's ego. It is not a popular uprising. This was created by and for Putin's sphere of influence. Glad to know you understand that.

So when US covertly fiddles with politics in Ukraine it's a conspiracy, but when it covertly fiddles with politics is Libya and Syria, it's not a conspiracy. Where's the difference?

EDIT: And notice how you just slammed down those words without providing even a lint seed of support for them, as if you were saying a self-evident truth. Quod erat demonstrandum.

[Frumple]

Dunno about others, but t'me it would mostly be the thought that the US actually gave two blue shits about ukraine before russia shoved its dong into it.

Actually, I don't think the states really care about it after the russodonging, either, to be honest. Middle east et al stuff actually has geopolitical happenings the US thinks matters nowadays. Russia and russia related areas mostly stopped being that several decades ago.

[Knit tie]

Dunno about others, but t'me it would mostly be the thought that the US actually gave two blue shits about ukraine before russia shoved its dong into it.

Actually, I don't think the states really care about it after the russodonging, either, to be honest. Middle east et al stuff actually has geopolitical happenings the US thinks matters nowadays. Russia and russia related areas mostly stopped being that several decades ago.

I agree, if Ukraine becoming pro-west didn't harm Russia, the USA wouldn't even acknowledge its existence, for the most part. But we all know that Pentagon loves to do the whole "regime change via rebels" extravaganza in order to weaken its enemies, such as what it did to Syria to prevent Bashar Al-Assad from supporting Iran. I honestly don't find it implausible that Nuland would nave a hand in the Euromaidan, especially with openly pro-western oligarchs coming to power as a result.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

EDIT: And notice how you just slammed down those words without providing even a lint seed of support for them, as if you were saying a self-evident truth. Quod erat demonstrandum.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=russian+soldier+funerals


http://news.yahoo.com/army-wives-urge-russia-come-clean-soldiers-ukraine-185525694.html

http://time.com/3198068/russian-soldiers-in-ukraine-put-pressure-on-putins-denials/

I'm done pandering to you now.

[Frumple]

I agree, if Ukraine becoming pro-west didn't harm Russia, the USA wouldn't even acknowledge its existence, for the most part. But we all know that Pentagon loves to do the whole "regime change via rebels" extravaganza in order to weaken its enemies[...]

Ookkaaay. The thing you seemed to have missed is that the states mostly stopped caring about harming russia before you were born. Not too long after the USSR collapsed, most of that region stopped being of substantial interest to the US.

It's, like. No russia, I'm sorry, we've broken up. You're not the hatebro anymore. I realize this hurts your ego, but. It is what it is. It's cute you're trying to stoke the fires of ragelust once more, but... your fire is small and dim, now. Not really any tinder left, there. Come back when you're geopolitically relevant again instead of flailing ineffectually.

Something like that, anyway.

E: Though I guess that's all kinda' offtopic. What's the R&D situation like in Russia these days? Any notable gains in any industries?

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Knit tie
Oh... you want to discuss? What for? You are saying here that my sister risked her life at Maydan, did that because Americans decided so. I know good enough that is a plain nonsense. Do you really think there are any room for discussion?

You say that Ukraine falling in American sphere of influence justifies (It is unimportant if it is truth or not) the fact that I lost friends on that war. I am not gonna discuss that either.

You say that husband of my sister serving in Azov is an evil nazi. Can't find any discussion here, either

Truth is very simple and needs no conspiracy theories: Your nation attacked my nation. Russians kill Ukrainians. Go, find excuses: It is American fault, it is nothing but civil war, Russia has a right to protect its interests. We only provide ammunitions (As if that is not enough). There are nazies on the other side or whatever else your mind will find. Putin's propaganda will propose you more than enough material for that.

The worst part is that Russians are doing nothing to stop the war. There are no real protests against that bloodshed. You don't demand Putin to do whatever to bring peace to "brotherly nation". Lets be honest, most of you support that, others don't care. At the very least don't care enough to act.

[Knit tie]

I agree, if Ukraine becoming pro-west didn't harm Russia, the USA wouldn't even acknowledge its existence, for the most part. But we all know that Pentagon loves to do the whole "regime change via rebels" extravaganza in order to weaken its enemies[...]

Ookkaaay. The thing you seemed to have missed is that the states mostly stopped caring about harming russia before you were born. Not too long after the USSR collapsed, most of that region stopped being of substantial interest to the US.

It's, like. No russia, I'm sorry, we've broken up. You're not the hatebro anymore. I realize this hurts your ego, but. It is what it is. It's cute you're trying to stoke the fires of ragelust once more, but... your fire is small and dim, now. Not really any tinder left, there. Come back when you're geopolitically relevant again instead of flailing ineffectually.

Something like that, anyway.

E: Though I guess that's all kinda' offtopic. What's the R&D situation like in Russia these days? Any notable gains in any industries?

Unfortunately, just how purging, class-hating communists can become popular again in Russia (hypothetically) and nationalists can become popular again in Ukraine (unfortunately), russophobic, interventionist conservatives can add a neo- to their name and become popular again in the USA. One of their main points is the necessity of another Cold War.

EDIT: And notice how you just slammed down those words without providing even a lint seed of support for them, as if you were saying a self-evident truth. Quod erat demonstrandum.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=russian+soldier+funerals


http://news.yahoo.com/army-wives-urge-russia-come-clean-soldiers-ukraine-185525694.html

http://time.com/3198068/russian-soldiers-in-ukraine-put-pressure-on-putins-denials/

I'm done pandering to you now.

Please, Miclan, I realise you are annoyed at this pathetic subhuman dreg so impudently refusing to see the instinctively obvious light of Truth^{just joking}, but please don't be so cross. I gave you plenty of links to support my position and no derisive insults, is it too much to ask for something similar in return? I am very sorry for being passive-aggressive there, I didn't want to offend you or imply anything. I just want some actual discussion, like "even if Crimea wanted to join Russia, disregarding another country's sovereignity like that is a recipe for chaos", or "I believe that Ukrainians are as morally justified in wanting to retain Donbass as the Russians were in wanting to retain Chechnya", or "the USA would've never been able to bring pro-western oligarchs to power if not for ordiary, honest people who just wanted to take down a tyrant and campaigned for that, and that what Euromaidan was all about" or even "the rebels may be justified in their fighting, but Puting certainly isn't simply because he has, officially, no right to interfere in Ukraine's affairs", and not just endless back and forth arguing "Russia's started it!" - "No it didn't!"

Knit tie
Oh... you want to discuss? What for? You are saying here that my sister risked her life at Maydan, did that because Americans decided so. I know good enough that is a plain nonsense. Do you really think there are any room for discussion?

You say that Ukraine falling in American sphere of influence justifies (It is unimportant if it is truth or not) the fact that I lost friends on that war. I am not gonna discuss that either.

You say that husband of my sister serving in Azov is an evil nazi. Can't find any discussion here, either

Truth is very simple and needs no conspiracy theories: Your nation attacked my nation. Russians kill Ukrainians. Go, find excuses: It is American fault, it is nothing but civil war, Russia has a right to protect its interests. We only provide ammunitions (As if that is not enough). There are nazies on the other side or whatever else your mind will find. Putin's propaganda will propose you more than enough material for that.

The worst part is that Russians are doing nothing to stop the war. There are no real protests against that bloodshed. You don't demand Putin to do whatever to bring peace to "brotherly nation". Lets be honest, most of you support that, others don't care. At the very least don't care enough to act.

Then don't pretend you want to discuss this stuff either. Your country is in shambles, your eastern end is rebelling, Russia's supporting it - of course you don't want to talk about it. You want us Russians to just eat shit and die! And it's fine, really. Everybody has the right to hate his enemy when everything's that bad. This thread and my PM box are always open for you to went your well-justified hatred, and I can guarantee you that I am never going to insult you back. I mean, you normal Ukranians are the ones suffering the most in this clusterfuck, for God's sake! Don't worry, Ranger, you can hate and curse me all you want, because nobody deserves the stuff that happened to your country ever since the century turned. I am being sincere.

EDIT: Wrong Thread. Why the hell do I keep posting stuff like this in the wrong thread. *headdesk*

[alway]

E: Though I guess that's all kinda' offtopic. What's the R&D situation like in Russia these days? Any notable gains in any industries?

Seems to generally fluctuate in the 1.0% to 1.3% range of GDP since the fall of the USSR. SK is the highest, at somewhere around 4%, US is a little ways down the list at about 2.5%, China at 1.9%, Australia at 1.7%, Brazil 0.9%, and a whole bunch in between and scattered around all those.

In terms of actual value of expenditure, it gets even more stark. The US spends $400B annually, China $300B, Japan $160B, Germany $69.5B, South Korea $65B, then after France, the UK, India, and Canada is Russia, at $24B.

After the fall of the USSR, Russia's R&D sector dropped off a cliff, since it had previously been almost entirely state-sponsored.

Wiki chart here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_research_and_development_spending

[Knit tie]

E: Though I guess that's all kinda' offtopic. What's the R&D situation like in Russia these days? Any notable gains in any industries?

Seems to generally fluctuate in the 1.0% to 1.3% range of GDP since the fall of the USSR. SK is the highest, at somewhere around 4%, US is a little ways down the list at about 2.5%, China at 1.9%, Australia at 1.7%, Brazil 0.9%, and a whole bunch in between and scattered around all those.

In terms of actual value of expenditure, it gets even more stark. The US spends $400B annually, China $300B, Japan $160B, Germany $69.5B, South Korea $65B, then after France, the UK, India, and Canada is Russia, at $24B.

After the fall of the USSR, Russia's R&D sector dropped off a cliff, since it had previously been almost entirely state-sponsored.

Wiki chart here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_research_and_development_spending

I can confirm that. The R&D in Russia has newer been that good when it came to civilian weapons, even in the times of RSFSR, and after the state support suddenly dropped like a rock in the 90s, most of our scientific community is still trying, painfully and unsuccessfully, to modernise.

I think the most obvious example of that is out attempt at building a new science centre "Skolkovo", which very rapidly became an excercise at misappropriating funds to an epic extent.

[Frumple]

Interesting to know.

... I was more wondering about actual stuff, though. Any interesting inventions, methodology improvements, etc., etc. Is there any field in the modern age where you actually go to russia to be on the bleeding edge of things? What about the slightly bruised edge?

E: Basically, is that 24 billion actually doing anything for the joint?

[Knit tie]

Interesting to know.

... I was more wondering about actual stuff, though. Any interesting inventions, methodology improvements, etc., etc. Is there any field in the modern age where you actually go to russia to be on the bleeding edge of things? What about the slightly bruised edge?

The guys from Novosibirsk science institute are testing a new drug against Parkinson's disease right now.

[alway]

Yeah, of course it is helping; you can hardly spend $100 on research without tripping over something useful. But what it comes down to is the question of whether you can run an entire economy on it. A research center here and there will support a town of both researchers and those supporting them; but so far as I'm aware, there isn't anything close to megacenters of technology like Silicon Valley, where money is flowing in so fast the surrounding economy's cost of living spikes; where a tech worker can find work whenever they get bored.

The only such thing a quick search for such a thing in modern Russia turned up were hopes about the future of Skolkovo, which doesn't even really exist yet.

[Vilanat]

Ookkaaay. The thing you seemed to have missed is that the states mostly stopped caring about harming russia before you were born. Not too long after the USSR collapsed, most of that region stopped being of substantial interest to the US.

It's, like. No russia, I'm sorry, we've broken up. You're not the hatebro anymore. I realize this hurts your ego, but. It is what it is. It's cute you're trying to stoke the fires of ragelust once more, but... your fire is small and dim, now. Not really any tinder left, there. Come back when you're geopolitically relevant again instead of flailing ineffectually.

Something like that, anyway.

E: Though I guess that's all kinda' offtopic. What's the R&D situation like in Russia these days? Any notable gains in any industries?

I find it hard to believe the US doesn't care about a country that is the largest natural gas exporter and second largest oil exporter and wouldn't want to pursue its own interests in the country and surrounding areas.

[Knit tie]

I doubt it was the US who instigated the entire Maiden revolution in Ukraine. This isn't on some "oh, the US wouldn't do that" opinion- this is on a "oh, the US wouldn't do such a thing at SUCH A HORRIBLE TIME" thing. I mean, catastrophic timing, really.

Internal problems?

[Knit tie]

I doubt it was the US who instigated the entire Maiden revolution in Ukraine. This isn't on some "oh, the US wouldn't do that" opinion- this is on a "oh, the US wouldn't do such a thing at SUCH A HORRIBLE TIME" thing. I mean, catastrophic timing, really.

Internal problems?

Hmm? Do you mean a sort of bad-communication sort of thing between various departments in the US? This just seems like the kind of thing that would require a... lot of miscommunication to occur for it to have happened accidentally.

I am just wondering why it would be such bad timing for the US to get involved. It didn't instigate the whole Euromaidan, of course, because that was mainly just a popular revolution by people against a spectacularly corrupt ruler, like the Orange one, but smaller, but it's not out of realm of possibility that Nuland thought it might be a good chance to get somebody pro-western in charge.