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[Knit tie]

So, basically, it's bullshit, but it's bullshit that do not agree with the mainstream media so it's good?

Also, I'd like a) an explanation of how the Radical Party is neo-nazi. Like seriously, I don't get it from their wikipedia page and b) an exemple of what you mean by "greater influence than that". Also, the Russian Duma got 12% of far-right MPs, yet you never hear anyone crying about how Russia is under control of neo-nazis.

Seriously Knit Tie, you used to be one of the reasonable one, now I feel like your account has been hacked by miljan.

It's a funny quirk of human neural programming that you always see everyone who doesn't agree with your point of view as stupid and irrational. Always found it interesting. But I digress.

You are correct in that not all right-wingers are neo-nazis, just like not all neoconservatives are gun-toting interventionist fanatics and not all deeply religious muslims are rabid jihadists. Neo-nazism is just one of the ideologies that fit under the definition of "right-wing". Unfortunately, the right-wingers in Ukraine, such as the Radical Party, are closely associated with various neo-nazi private armies and militia groups, such as the aforementioned Lyashko being a patron of the openly nazi Azov battalion, which allows us to suspect them as being nazi themselves.

As for an example of "greater influence", the deputy commander of the aforementioned Azov battalion, Vadim Troyan, recently got appointed as the head of Kiev Oblast police. In addition, Avakov, minister of the interior of Ukraine, has recently stated that he will continue to appoint volunteer battalion members to governmental positions of importance and further integrate the volunteer battalions themselves into Ukraine's military and police force.

[miljan]

Seriously Knit Tie, you used to be the reasonable one, now I feel like your account has been hacked by miljan.

Thats not nice to imply that other people are not reasonable, while i guess you are.

[Darvi]

It's a funny quirk of human neural programming that you always see everyone who doesn't agree with your point of view as stupid and irrational. Always found it interesting.

You do realise that passive-aggression is prime flame bait, right?

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Lets go back to Russia. There are a thread for Ukraine now. Go guys, promote your country, post news from inside your country.

[Knit tie]

It's a funny quirk of human neural programming that you always see everyone who doesn't agree with your point of view as stupid and irrational. Always found it interesting.

You do realise that passive-aggression is prime flame bait, right?

Wait, that was passive - agressive? Goddammit. I'm sorry, I was just trying to diffuse the situation with humor and by stating that we, as humans, are inherently inclined to see those who disagree with us as "wrong" and "incorrect", but I guess that came out wrong. Sorry, Sheb, I didn't want to imply anything about you in those sentences. Sorry.

Lets go back to Russia. There are a thread for Ukraine now. Go guys, promote your country, post news from inside your country.

I concur!

[Helgoland]

Wasn't this thread supposed to be all sources, no discussion?

But I can't pass up the opinion to get in one last word: Knit, I kept thinking what Sheb said about you, but I didn't know if I misremembered... Your point of view has changed, hasn't it?

[Knit tie]

Wasn't this thread supposed to be all sources, no discussion?

But I can't pass up the opinion to get in one last word: Knit, I kept thinking what Sheb said about you, but I didn't know if I misremembered... Your point of view has changed, hasn't it?

It did. Back in Mother Russia's embrace and the company of my hardline liberal father I was, as is usual for many russians with our long history of shameless propaganda, sceptical of the state media and of all other media that supported the state media's point of view, so sceptical, in fact, that I used to dismiss every opinion and fact that agreed with Kremlin as automatically biased and untrue. Of course, that left me naturally predisposed to believe the official western media's opinions instead, which I considered, again, as many russians do, to be fundamentaly fair and objective. It all ended this year, when I moved into the ancient and glorious state of Great Britain to discover that the majority of western media is as hysterically sensationalist, politically motivated, unfairly opinionated, dismissive of other points of view and just plain mendacious as the Russian one.

From there on, I started to more actively research and sometimes even actually support the official Russian position on some issues, including the one on the current Ukrainian crisis. After all, if the desired and the real are the same, even the most odious propaganda mouthpiece needs not lie.

What happened to you Knit tie? You used to be cool.

No, I used to be a man who, while knowing very little about the issue, nevertheless supports the Western point of view simply because he percieves it as more truthful solely due to his own liberal bias and who churns out posts that contain, essentially, vague philosophical discussions and generalisations instead of providing actual facts in his arguments.

[Mictlantecuhtli]

This just in GB's media is a joke, that makes state sponsored propaganda correct

[Mictlantecuhtli]

It all ended this year, when I moved into the ancient and glorious state of Great Britain to discover that the majority of western media is as hysterically sensationalist, politically motivated, unfairly opinionated, dismissive of other points of view and just plain mendacious as the Russian one.

Of course.

[Fniff]

To be honest, I would prefer state sponsored media to the Daily Mail as a sole media source. Not that either are good options, it's just that the Daily Mail's main objective (Sell as much copy as possible) has a much wider net then state sponsored media does. That objective being "make our country look as good as possible".
Of course, the best option is to focus on neither of them.

[Knit tie]

This just in GB's media is a joke, that makes state sponsored propaganda correct

That's not what I meant. I meant that reading GB's blatant propaganda has opened my eyes on how the Western point of view is not always correct and how the Russian point of view is not always wrong.

EDIT: Ninja'd by greatorder.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

After all, if the desired and the real are the same, even the most odious propaganda mouthpiece needs not lie.

Do you mean that National guard does crucify 3-year old boys, MH17 was shot down by Ukrainian aircraft and every  member of volunteer  battalion was promised to get 2 East Ukrainian slaves after the war?

[Mictlantecuhtli]

This just in GB's media is a joke, that makes state sponsored propaganda correct

That's not what I meant. I meant that reading GB's blatant propaganda has opened my eyes on how the Western point of view is not always correct and how the Russian point of view is not always wrong.

EDIT: Ninja'd by greatorder.

GB's media is caustic -> Russian propaganda is true

And so, because I believe that every side of a story deserves a voice, I present to you a list of most highly recommended not anti-Russia Russia watchers, courtesy of Anatoly Karlin's blog: "Alexander Mercouris, Graham Phillips, Eric Kraus, Jon Hellevig, Patrick Armstrong, Ben Aris, Mark Sleboda, Alexander Dugin, Vladimir Suchan, Mark Adomanis, Leos Tomicek, Sean Guillory, Dmitry Trenin, Jake Rudnitsky, Mark Schrad, Alec Luhn, Dmitry Linnik, Bryan McDonald, Gleb Bazov, Egor Prosvirnin, Maxim Kononenko, Natalia Antonova, Maxim Eristavi, Simon Ostrovsky, @southfronteng, @euromaidan, @noclador, @anti_maydan, @IndependentKrym, @UkrToday… and your own humble servant, @akarlin88."

Excerpt from the first person; indicative of most others [besides the occasional actual russia watcher who shows that the DNR is a fascist movement]

"There is no evidence however that either the junta or its supporters in Washington have learnt any lessons from this debacle. Whilst one of the key reasons for the failure of the “anti terrorist operation” (as I predicted a month ago) has been the violent and undisciplined behaviour of the right wing paramilitaries enlisted in the National Guard upon whom the junta is increasingly coming to rely (see their actions in Mariupol) the junta is astonishingly proposing to rely on them even more.."
http://darussophile.com/2014/05/the-anti-terrorist-operation-in-the-ukraine-has-been-a-disaster/

Fun fact; some media being a joke doesn't create a situation where lies and propaganda are any less of lies and propaganda

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Why say truth if you can lie and make truth even more fitting for your propaganda? It is not like there are any negatives in such plan

[Knit tie]

After all, if the desired and the real are the same, even the most odious propaganda mouthpiece needs not lie.

Do you mean that National guard does crucify 3-year old boys, MH17 was shot down by Ukrainian aircraft and every  member of volunteer  battalion was promised to get 2 East Ukrainian slaves after the war?

Well, the MH17 really was shot down by a fighter airplane as the picture shows, and considering that there were no Russian aircraft in that area at the time (because otherwise the Ukraine would trumpet this fact all over the news), said airplane was most likely Ukrainian. I don't know of any concrete evidence that "a parcel of land and 2 (or 20) slaves" is what the commander of the Donbass battalion promised his troops, but I do know that the battalion was once dismissed and recreated for looting and also that the volunteer battalions, in general, have punitive operations against the civilian populace as one of their main functions.