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[Knit tie]

Except Russia did support the rebels. I'm sure they expected support, and they got it.

Also, you have a few Neo-Nazis in every parliament. Hell, your "Liberal Democratic Party" got over 50 seats in the Duma. That doesn't  mean anything.

And I'm sure we can discuss it here unless the OP deems Ukraine out-of-topic. No need to split discussions in 50 different topics.

Have you also missed the fact that he's not only in parliament, but is also a commander of a volunteer battalion?

Having a neo-nazi in parliament is not the problem, the problem that he has his own personal military regiment. How many countries do you know that have neo-nazis with their own little armies?

My point exactly - in most countries, neo-nazis are on the fringe, but in Ukraine, they constitute 15 - 20% of the parliament and are present also in other parties, such as "Batkivshina". And to confound the problem further, the neo-nazi battalions are also the private armies of the oligarchs that support them, which are oftentimes used to attain political goals.

[cerapa]

constitute 15 - 20% of the parliament

"the new government in Kiev is going to be even more aggressive, even more radical, and even more dangerous"
"will now have to contend with even more right wing pressure to eschew negotiations and pragmatism with Russia, in favor of a destructive and unwinnable strategy of continued antagonism and provocation."
"President Poroshenko and his bloc and Arseniy Yatsenyuk and his “People’s Front,” both handpicked by the United States"

This does not strike me as an unbiased source.

[Knit tie]

Please the the ukrainian crisis thread.

[Sergarr]

constitute 15 - 20% of the parliament

"the new government in Kiev is going to be even more aggressive, even more radical, and even more dangerous"
"will now have to contend with even more right wing pressure to eschew negotiations and pragmatism with Russia, in favor of a destructive and unwinnable strategy of continued antagonism and provocation."
"President Poroshenko and his bloc and Arseniy Yatsenyuk and his “People’s Front,” both handpicked by the United States"

This does not strike me as an unbiased source.

The "handpicked" part strikes me as a part of this stupid brand of stupidity that permeats through some circles or our society, claiming that USA is basically some kind of Xanatos Overmind able to make plans 100 steps forward, all aimed to destroy Russia.

[Phmcw]

Except Russia did support the rebels. I'm sure they expected support, and they got it.

Also, you have a few Neo-Nazis in every parliament. Hell, your "Liberal Democratic Party" got over 50 seats in the Duma. That doesn't  mean anything.

And I'm sure we can discuss it here unless the OP deems Ukraine out-of-topic. No need to split discussions in 50 different topics.

Have you also missed the fact that he's not only in parliament, but is also a commander of a volunteer battalion?

Having a neo-nazi in parliament is not the problem, the problem that he has his own personal military regiment. How many countries do you know that have neo-nazis with their own little armies?

Sergarr you have an ex KGB as your president. The KGB isn't seen much better than the gestapo in Europe, and Ukrainian Nazi had the somewhat attenuating circumstance of having to choose between Hitler and Stalin at the time, which isn't much better than having to chose between Charybde and Scylla.


It's extremely bad that they have nazi, but then again Puttin's rehabilitiation of Stalin is equally frightening to most of us. And if things get bad, we can alway get rid of the Nazi pretty easilly.


So that alone isn't going to sway Europeans a lot.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

What a nonsense that article is.... Calling every right winger a neo-nazi is absurd by itself. Not mentioning that Svoboda lost the election is another funny as hell moment.

Is anyone interested in my detailed comments on that article? It is time consuming, so I will do that if there are interest

[Sheb]

Yeah, it also seems to be an article that was published before the results of the new elections were fully known.

the reality is that roughly 15-20 percent of the seats in the Rada will be controlled by the fascist forces of Oleh Lyashko (Radical Party) and Oleh Tyahnybok (Svoboda Party)

Svoboda has 6 seats, the Radical Party 22. Together they have 6.2% of the seats (22 out of 450).

So, bullshit?

[Knit tie]

Yeah, it also seems to be an article that was published before the results of the new elections were fully known.

the reality is that roughly 15-20 percent of the seats in the Rada will be controlled by the fascist forces of Oleh Lyashko (Radical Party) and Oleh Tyahnybok (Svoboda Party)

Svoboda has 6 seats, the Radical Party 22. Together they have 6.2% of the seats (22 out of 450).

So, bullshit?

The article does exagerrate a fair bit, especially in claiming that the US involvement was as direct as it claims it was, but I think it presents a good counterpint to the official version of the election results, which downplays the neo-nazi influence. The social-nationalist parties may have only 6.2% of the seats officially, but inofficially, their influence is greater.

[Sheb]

So, basically, it's bullshit, but it's bullshit that do not agree with the mainstream media so it's good?

Also, I'd like a) an explanation of how the Radical Party is neo-nazi. Like seriously, I don't get it from their wikipedia page and b) an exemple of what you mean by "greater influence than that". Also, the Russian Duma got 12% of far-right MPs, yet you never hear anyone crying about how Russia is under control of neo-nazis.

Seriously Knit Tie, you used to be one of the reasonable one, now I feel like your account has been hacked by miljan.

[Sergarr]

Except Russia did support the rebels. I'm sure they expected support, and they got it.

Also, you have a few Neo-Nazis in every parliament. Hell, your "Liberal Democratic Party" got over 50 seats in the Duma. That doesn't  mean anything.

And I'm sure we can discuss it here unless the OP deems Ukraine out-of-topic. No need to split discussions in 50 different topics.

Have you also missed the fact that he's not only in parliament, but is also a commander of a volunteer battalion?

Having a neo-nazi in parliament is not the problem, the problem that he has his own personal military regiment. How many countries do you know that have neo-nazis with their own little armies?

Sergarr you have an ex KGB as your president. The KGB isn't seen much better than the gestapo in Europe, and Ukrainian Nazi had the somewhat attenuating circumstance of having to choose between Hitler and Stalin at the time, which isn't much better than having to chose between Charybde and Scylla.


It's extremely bad that they have nazi, but then again Puttin's rehabilitiation of Stalin is equally frightening to most of us. And if things get bad, we can alway get rid of the Nazi pretty easilly.


So that alone isn't going to sway Europeans a lot.

It seems you're not quite understanding.

Neo-nazies. Legit neo-nazies. In Ukraine. With private armies. Neo-nazies with private armies.

Maybe I should repeat it again, so that you can better understand what's wrong with that?

Neo-nazies. In Ukraine. With their own private armies (which are also composed of neo-nazies). They don't have to answer to anyone, because they're also the people who were at Maidan. They're in fact seen by guys like Avakov to be ideal Ukrainian citizens and something which all Ukrainians should aspire to be.

If you don't see that as wrong then I give up.

[Darvi]

This is the first time I've heard about private armies.

[Sheb]

Sergarr, those battaillions were set up after the beginning of the civil war, way after the whole "Neo-Nazis are out to get you" propaganda wave. Plus, while it could be worrying, I don't see any sign that those volunteer battaillion have an outsize influence on the Ukrainian state.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

'I thought Fangorn was dangerous.'

 'Dangerous!' cried Gandalf. 'And so am I, very dangerous: more dangerous than anything you will ever meet, unless you are brought alive before the seat of the Dark Lord. And Aragorn is dangerous, and Legolas is dangerous. You are beset with dangers, Gimli son of Glóin; for you are dangerous yourself, in your own fashion.

Yes. Azov battalion regiment is dangerous. But either you are dangerous or useless

[Sergarr]

Sergarr, those battaillions were set up after the beginning of the civil war, way after the whole "Neo-Nazis are out to get you" propaganda wave. Plus, while it could be worrying, I don't see any sign that those volunteer battaillion have an outsize influence on the Ukrainian state.

These battalions didn't just appear out of nowhere, Sheb.

And their influence isn't an outside influence because they have the inside influence. They're really popular among common Ukrainians as the "true Ukrainian heroes that get things done".

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Why are you talking about battalions when only one battalion(now regiment) is right wingish?