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[Helgoland]

Have a wiki article.

The Mishnah (Kiddushin 3:12) states that, to be a Jew, one must be either the child of a Jewish mother or a convert to Judaism, (ger tzedek, "righteous convert").

Religion can very much be inherited; Hinduism operates on this principle as well, as does Yezidism, I think. Aquiring membership only by conversion is a trait characteristic of the expansionist religions: Islam and Christianity.

[burningpet]

active islamophobes flapping about.

Phobe suggest an Irrational fear, while the differences between me and muslims fear for islam, is that i "fear" islam because it tells people to either kill me, force to convert me or be demanded to pay special tax to have the luxury of becoming a second grade citizen, while they fear islam because if they don't, they believe allah will paint their faces in black and punish them with everlasting fire.

Out of those two fears against islam, mine is actually the rational one.

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

Just to clearify, I don't want bashing on this thread

[Cheeetar]

BP, is Jizya tax still really a 'thing' outside of extreme extremist groups? A brief, lazy check of wikipedia states that it really isn't.

[Sheb]

BP: That's not the point, Islamophobe has become the terms for people that are prejudiced against Muslims, in pretty much the same way that antisemites refers to people that are prejudiced against Jews despite the fact that we have plenty of other semitic people around.

[TD1]

Not quite. Islamophobe has "phobe" in it. Most people associate that with fear. So whilst yes, it may be used for people who are prejudiced, but it also holds the connotation that this is an irrational fear.

[Reelya]

Jews were actually concentrated in a few large cities of the Empire. Istanbul was only 5% Jewish, but Salonica, the Empire's thrid city (and seat of the revolutionary CUP), was 39% Jewish. In what is now Israel, Jews accounted for 5% of the Ottoman population at the turn of the century, concentrated in Jerusalemn, Tiberias, and Saffad. Jerusalem itself was 40% Jewish.

And again, I'm not discussing than in the 1960's, the Arab leadership wanted the Jews out of Israel. I (and everyone but you) is arguing that they wanted the Jews out of Israel because they (rightly, IMO) saw them as Europeans colonists, not for religious reasons.

Yeah, we will end this discussion, since its not entirely relevant. but calling them "european colonists" is maliciously and intentionally overlooking the fact that they were not colonists, but refugees (the vast majority). if there's one reason for the arab countries to oppose refugees by a systematic genocide, returning to a mostly vacant country, its only because those refugees were jews, not europeans. had they been sunni muslims returning from europe, the arab countries would have done nothing at all to try and stop them. i don't remember full scale assault of 5 countries and countless organizations against the european muslim colonists that came from spain.

Don't repeat the "mostly vacant" bit. It's entirely propaganda. In the aid of genocide. You might as well repeat NAZI propaganda, it's just as offensive.

http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Palestine-Remembered/Story414.html

From the early stages of Zionism to the present, Zionists have propagated the myth that the most important land-bridge in human history (Palestine) has been empty and destitute for two thousand year until it was later developed by the Israeli Jews. To facilitate such disinformation, the Zionists adopted the following slogan to entice European Jewry to emigrate to Palestine:

    "A land with no people is for a people with no land".


 As the Ottoman census records show Palestine was widely inhabited in the late 19th and early 20th century, especially in the rural areas where agriculture was the main profession. According to Justine McCarthy (p. 26), an authority on the Ottoman Turks, Palestine's population in the early 19th century was 350,000, and in 1914 Palestine had a population of 657,000 Muslim Arabs, 81,000 Christian Arabs, and 59,000 Jews (including many European Jews from the first and second Aliyah).

So the Jewish population in Palestine as of 1914 were under 8% of the total population, which was much smaller than the Palestinian Christian Arab population. It should be noted that our source, Justine McCarthy was quoted by many Israeli Jewish scholars like Benny Morris and Tom Segev. In that regard, it's worth quoting one of the most ardent Zionists, Israel Zangwill, who stated as early as 1905, that Palestine was twice as thickly populated as the United States. He stated:

    "Palestine proper has already its inhabitants. The pashalik of Jerusalem is already twice as thickly populated as the United States, having fifty-two souls to the square mile, and not 25% of them Jews ..... [We] must be prepared either to drive out by the sword the [Arab] tribes in possession as our forefathers did or to grapple with the problem of a large alien population, mostly Mohammedan and accustomed for centuries to despise us." (Righteous Victims, p. 140 & Expulsion Of The Palestinians, p. 7-10)

OK Palestine was twice as densely populated as the USA by WWI. After WWII there were almost 1 million non-Jewish people there. What's the criteria for "empty" though? 1 million suddenly not enough?

And it's the exact same stuff white Australian colonists told themselves which made it ok to genocide the aborigines. The principle of Terra Nullius. And its easily debunked. Israel gets attacked as a colonial state not because they come from somewhere else, but because they act like a colonial state complete with the genocide and herding the locals into camps. And their propaganda is replete with ALL the stuff that colonial states have used over centuries to justify exterminating or otherwise removing the indigenous population. Demonizing the original population, controlling the movement of those people, and replacing local populations with planned "settlers" of a specific race ("settlers" is an Orwellian code used by colonial usurpers for the guy who stole your farm). None of this is new: they are the same tactics of colonialism and ethnic cleansing as used by every major colonialzing group.

A lot of writing just by Jews already tells you how screwed up it is. I was looking for something else but came across this one:
https://www.opendemocracy.net/transformation/ray-filar/why-i-am-antizionist-jew

[Sheb]

Also, you can totally be a refugee and a colonist at the same time.

Th4DwArfY1: That's the etymology, but the current meaning is prejudice of Muslims. Just open a dictionary if you don't believe me.

[TD1]

I'm not talking actual meaning. I'm talking association. Most people associate it with an irrational fear-it's only natural with something called a phobia.

[Frumple]

To be fair, in this case, it should be fairly obvious either definition works. So... arguing about it is somewhat silly.

Also, yeah, probably better suited for the middle-east thread or somethin'. We're not even hearing about the judaic or christian theological consideration of islam, here, just distorted secular views (of islamic minorities, even!).

[Gentlefish]

I'm not talking actual meaning. I'm talking association. Most people associate it with an irrational fear-it's only natural with something called a phobia.

Okay so we associate homphobia with people who scream in fright at the sight of a gay couple because it's obviously an irrational fear and not a prejudice against them and homophobic statements are totally "I'm so afraid of gay people" and not "I hate fags"?

Totally just an irrational fear of gay people.

Islamophobia is totally just an irrational fear of adherents to a religion.

[Orange Wizard]

I feel like Jack Chick would have written something about how every good Christian should be terrified of gay people.

[Gentlefish]

I feel like Jack Chick would have written something about how every good Christian should be terrified of gay people.

I'm sure. "There's a Tract for That" is like, his catchphrase.

[Reelya]

LMGTFY

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0084/0084_01.asp

It's amazingly relevant, if screwed up.

[TD1]

I'm not talking actual meaning. I'm talking association. Most people associate it with an irrational fear-it's only natural with something called a phobia.

Okay so we associate homphobia with people who scream in fright at the sight of a gay couple because it's obviously an irrational fear and not a prejudice against them and homophobic statements are totally "I'm so afraid of gay people" and not "I hate fags"?

Totally just an irrational fear of gay people.

Islamophobia is totally just an irrational fear of adherents to a religion.

I'm not talking what it actually is. I'm saying that calling it Homophobia/Islamophobia naturally leads to people believing it is an irrational fear, whilst the person concerned may have a rational fear, e.g. religious reasons.