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[Harbingerjm]

Ok, so, to get back on track to the important business of helping me make a badger rider. Any friendly comments on the below and any help for progression would be welcome.

I think it would be best for me to pick a ranger, as it is naturally more outdoorsy and because I’m not sure the whole idea works so well with a sneaking-about-dungeons type of rogue. This is mostly because I’m not sure Feckle the Forest Gnome would leap into combat, but would prefer to shoot things. From the back of his Dire Badger.

So! I need Wild Cohort as my Level 1 feat, assuming Nerjin will let me take a Dire Badger (if I can’t I suppose I’ll have to rethink the whole thing a bit), and I think I should take Point Blank Shot to help negate the penalty to shooting whilst mounted without taking both Mounted Combat and Mounted Archery. (I think the Wild Cohort feat may be a waste once I get an Animal Companion, but I don’t know what to do about this.)

So I need a flaw; I think I should take Non-combatant for -2 to melee hitting. Don’t know of anything less bad.

I considered being a whisper gnome as they seem better at… most things that forest gnomes, but I’m quite keen on the idea of being a tiny green midget at the moment, so forest gnome it is.

I think these stats would be best (original 28 points / forest gnome adjustment / +3 ability scores for Tier 4):

STR 12 – 10 – 10
DEX 15 – 15 – 18
CON 12 – 14 – 14
INT 14 – 14 – 14
WIS 12 – 12 – 12
CHA 10 – 10 – 10

With the points at levels 4 and 8 going to WIS.

http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=1035617


edit:
Also, I have chosen humans as the favoured enemy for now. Presumably Undead would be better, or... demons, but I'm not sure the character knows about all that yet, I'll have to work on the back story. But then since there are two human factions, perhaps we will fight some.

edit 2: Not sure I can afford a longbow yet unless I ride mostly naked.

I doubt he'll let you take a Dire Badger as a level 1 Wild Cohort (you may want to take Mounted Combat instead), but what you could potentially do is buy a baby one in your backstory (3.5 doesn't directly price it AFAIK, but PF puts the price at 125 gp), raise and train it, and hope your handle animal will suffice to keep it under control until level 8 (or 6 if you take Natural Bond at that level). I would be very careful, though, that uncontrollable rage of theirs is a TPK waiting to happen, especially at level 1.

Also, given the sheer number of Undead in the setting, that he knows of them seems quite likely.

Also also, I wouldn't bother putting the level up points to Wis; you don't need much of it to cast maximum Ranger spells, and a magic item can boost it up fine.

Alternatively, though it's probably not what you're looking for, you could apply the Tauric template to a gnome and a badger... If nothing else, the mental image is amusing...

[lawastooshort]

I doubt he'll let you take a Dire Badger as a level 1 Wild Cohort

Hum, no, probably not on reflection. Really I just want an obese badger I guess. Something big enough for a two foot gnome to perch on.

but what you could potentially do is buy a baby one in your backstory (3.5 doesn't directly price it AFAIK, but PF puts the price at 125 gp), raise and train it, and hope your handle animal will suffice to keep it under control until level 8 (or 6 if you take Natural Bond at that level). I would be very careful, though, that uncontrollable rage of theirs is a TPK waiting to happen, especially at level 1.

I can’t spend all my starting cash on an angry badger I can’t ride yet!! The idea of said badger ending the game is pretty amusing though.

Also also, I wouldn't bother putting the level up points to Wis; you don't need much of it to cast maximum Ranger spells, and a magic item can boost it up fine.
 

Thanks, I didn’t know enough about that.

Alternatively, though it's probably not what you're looking for, you could apply the Tauric template to a gnome and a badger... If nothing else, the mental image is amusing...

You mean a badgergnome? It’s not, no, but it is, yes.

I… I find the idea both horrifying and awesome. A tiny green-tinged badgergnome scurrying about in the tunnels, doing… stuff. Possibly shooting tiny arrows, or getting enraged with its angry angry claws. I wouldn’t know where to start though.


(edit: I might look into the idea for future use.)


(more important edit: I guess I could just ride a wolf until I manage to find and tame a dire badger? Or get a wizard to cast permanent Enlarge on a badger?)

[Harbingerjm]

but what you could potentially do is buy a baby one in your backstory (3.5 doesn't directly price it AFAIK, but PF puts the price at 125 gp), raise and train it, and hope your handle animal will suffice to keep it under control until level 8 (or 6 if you take Natural Bond at that level). I would be very careful, though, that uncontrollable rage of theirs is a TPK waiting to happen, especially at level 1.

I can’t spend all my starting cash on an angry badger I can’t ride yet!! The idea of said badger ending the game is pretty amusing though.

You can ride it, you just can't make it your Animal Companion, so it's a bit harder to control (oh dear) and it won't get Animal Companion advancement (oh noes).

Alternatively, though it's probably not what you're looking for, you could apply the Tauric template to a gnome and a badger... If nothing else, the mental image is amusing...

You mean a badgergnome? It’s not, no, but it is, yes.

I… I find the idea both horrifying and awesome. A tiny green-tinged badgergnome scurrying about in the tunnels, doing… stuff. Possibly shooting tiny arrows, or getting enraged with its angry angry claws. I wouldn’t know where to start though.

It's actually fairly easy, just requires a single fairly simple template, but on closer inspection the legs half needs to be medium or large, so barring the DM ruling that you can use a small animal if you have a small humanoid half, you'd need to use a Dire Badger and then you run into massive racial hit dice problems.

Hmmm. There are a few possibilities. First, how attached are you to it being a Gnome? If you just want it to be a small green badger rider, a Kobold with Slight Build would probably work, and making it green is trivial. Alternatively, if you can get a feat for your mount, it could take the Mighty Steed feat from the Dragonlance setting, letting it be ridden by a rider one size category larger than normal, or if the DM will let your character take a Pathfinder feat, there's Undersized Mount that lets you ride a mount one size category smaller than usual.

Also, you might want to look at the Uncivilized trait and the Saddleback feat, both of them seem like they'd be good for the character.

[lawastooshort]

You can ride it, you just can't make it your Animal Companion, so it's a bit harder to control (oh dear) and it won't get Animal Companion advancement (oh noes).

Aha! And if I didn’t waste a feat on Animal Cohort, then I could… take something else, I guess (such as Saddleback below?). However, the cost of a dire badger is still pretty prohibitive for a Level 1 character.

Hmmm. There are a few possibilities. First, how attached are you to it being a Gnome?

Don’t know, it’s a good question. You know, I guess Kobolds are loveable creatures just like Gnomes. What would be the drawbacks?

Alternatively, if you can get a feat for your mount, it could take the Mighty Steed feat from the Dragonlance setting, letting it be ridden by a rider one size category larger than normal, or if the DM will let your character take a Pathfinder feat, there's Undersized Mount that lets you ride a mount one size category smaller than usual.

Also, you might want to look at the Uncivilized trait and the Saddleback feat, both of them seem like they'd be good for the character.

Saddleback does seem good. Uncivilised doesn’t take up a feat slot, if I have understood? Might also be useful, thank you.

I think my favoured solution would be to swap Animal Cohort for Saddleback, and for the GM to allow me to buy a normal badger with the Mighty Steed feat.

(edit: or just for the GM to allow me to have a normal badger with Animal Cohort, I guess)

I think a dire badger has a few drawbacks – such as general danger and expense.

I could stretch to being a kobold, I suppose that the inspiration that came to me was the character’s being a Gnome.


Nerjin: can Dimble the badger take a feat?

Harbinger:[b/] thanks for being so helpful.

[Harbingerjm]

You can ride it, you just can't make it your Animal Companion, so it's a bit harder to control (oh dear) and it won't get Animal Companion advancement (oh noes).

Aha! And if I didn’t waste a feat on Animal Cohort, then I could… take something else, I guess (such as Saddleback below?). However, the cost of a dire badger is still pretty prohibitive for a Level 1 character.

Indeed so. Plus the mentioned issues with potential TPKs. You'd probably be better off starting with a standard badger, and either swapping it for a Dire Badger later or training it as a Warbeast.

Hmmm. There are a few possibilities. First, how attached are you to it being a Gnome?

Don’t know, it’s a good question. You know, I guess Kobolds are loveable creatures just like Gnomes. What would be the drawbacks?

Speaking as a highly biased source, Kobolds are infinitely superior and far more loveable than Gnomes. However, they do have a hell of a feud and generally very different personalities, so there's that to consider. Also, they're really more about Dire Weasels than Badgers, though you could always just be an oddity or come from a specialised tribe. The stats are very different, and you don't get the Spell Likes (there is a ritual that can give you a spell like ability castable once a day, though the ritual costs you 1 hitpoint). Also, you get light sensitivity, so you'd want to grab a pair of Sundark goggles. If you are considering it, I would suggest reading up on Kobolds, because they are very different.

Alternatively, if you can get a feat for your mount, it could take the Mighty Steed feat from the Dragonlance setting, letting it be ridden by a rider one size category larger than normal, or if the DM will let your character take a Pathfinder feat, there's Undersized Mount that lets you ride a mount one size category smaller than usual.
Also, you might want to look at the Uncivilized trait and the Saddleback feat, both of them seem like they'd be good for the character.

Saddleback does seem good. Uncivilised doesn’t take up a feat slot, if I have understood? Might also be useful, thank you.
I think my favoured solution would be to swap Animal Cohort for Saddleback, and for the GM to allow me to buy a normal badger with the Mighty Steed feat.
(edit: or just for the GM to allow me to have a normal badger with Animal Cohort, I guess)
I think a dire badger has a few drawbacks – such as general danger and expense.
I could stretch to being a kobold, I suppose that the inspiration that came to me was the character’s being a Gnome.

Correct, traits are different. Uncivilised does give some penalties to Bluff, Diplo and Gather Info, but that seems fairly in keeping with your character, and they're not particularly ranger-critical.
As for the Badger with Mighty Steed, perhaps swap out its Agile feat for Mighty Steed and throw on the Hardy trait, fluffing it as a slightly bulkier and stronger, though less agile, badger?

[lawastooshort]

Hum – so should I take Animal Cohort to get the badger, or is it cheaply buyable? (the main thing I have against taking Animal Cohort is that if I get to Level 4 I get a companion too… but I suppose then I could soon have lots of tiny badgerlings).

If I can’t buy the badger, is Saddleback a better feat in these particular circumstances than Point Blank Shot, do you think? (I can’t take Saddleback later, I could take PBS at Level 3)


Re: kobolds: I don’t think I will get time to completely redo my sheet to a kobold (having said that I find myself wishing more and more that I could). However, I like weasels (and ferrets) very nearly as much as badgers and the idea of riding a direweasel is one I find immediately and immensely pleasing. In honour of your considerable help, I think the next time I join a d&d game I will do so as a direweasel riding kobold.

[Flying Dice]

Yeah, Harbinger's right on that, insofar as that kobolds are generally superior to gnomes in a number of ways, though you'll want to keep in mind the hit to Con when you're allocating your points. If you're feeling cheesy and Nerjin allows it, you might be able to get away with doing the Venerable Dragonwrought nonsense, but I wouldn't count on it.

That said, if you're really looking for a Small PC rather than a gnome specifically, you could always go the time-honored route of Strongheart Halfling for the bonus feat at 1st level.

[lawastooshort]

Yeah, Harbinger's right on that, insofar as that kobolds are generally superior to gnomes in a number of ways, though you'll want to keep in mind the hit to Con when you're allocating your points.

[…]

That said, if you're really looking for a Small PC rather than a gnome specifically, you could always go the time-honored route of Strongheart Halfling for the bonus feat at 1st level.

I don’t really have time to redo the sheet so won’t do a kobold, and I’d prefer the Forest Gnome to any sort of Halfling or some such for the moment.

If you're feeling cheesy

I rarely do, unfortunately.


I think, apart from a mount decision pending GM decision, and possibly deciding on swapping a feat, that I’m all done.

[Harbingerjm]

Hum – so should I take Animal Cohort to get the badger, or is it cheaply buyable? (the main thing I have against taking Animal Cohort is that if I get to Level 4 I get a companion too… but I suppose then I could soon have lots of tiny badgerlings).

If I can’t buy the badger, is Saddleback a better feat in these particular circumstances than Point Blank Shot, do you think? (I can’t take Saddleback later, I could take PBS at Level 3)

A badger should be fairly cheap, though it's ultimately up to the DM since 3.5 doesn't price it anywhere I know of; Pathfinder prices it at 15gp, though, for a rough ballpark figure.
And yes, if you're going to take Saddleback it needs level 1 hence replacing PBS, though it'll require DM permission since it's outside the allowed books (and IIRC it's a regional feat, too).

Re: kobolds: I don’t think I will get time to completely redo my sheet to a kobold (having said that I find myself wishing more and more that I could). However, I like weasels (and ferrets) very nearly as much as badgers and the idea of riding a direweasel is one I find immediately and immensely pleasing. In honour of your considerable help, I think the next time I join a d&d game I will do so as a direweasel riding kobold.

Yeah, Kobold Ranger actually gets a specific substitution level replacing its Animal Companion with a Dire Weasel, which is pretty fun.

If you're feeling cheesy and Nerjin allows it, you might be able to get away with doing the Venerable Dragonwrought nonsense, but I wouldn't count on it.

Dragonwrought is quite worth taking even on a young character, both for mechanical and flavour effects.

[lawastooshort]

Well, I think I'll have to forget about Saddleback. I think I need Wild Cohort and Point Blank Shot for Level 1, then Mounted Combat (Level 3), Mounted Archery (6), then Improved Mounted Archery at Level 9.

Probably. Not sure about the most effective time to take PBS. Possibly shifting it to level 6. Or just forgetting it entirely.

Also, apologies to the rest of the party if this turns out a bad choice (I've still got time to be convinced to swap to Undead) but I think I will be taking Human as my first Favoured Enemy, and then Undead as the second.

Another also, with regards to a future direweasel riding kobold rogue, I found this:

Martial Stance (island of blades)ToB: When you and an ally both threaten an opponent, the two of you are treated as flanking.

If I understand correctly, this basically means you'd just have to be mounted to be able to sneak attack?? So you could be a kobold lancer and sneak attack-charge???


edit: bother - I thought I was done, but then I wondered, is it worth putting many ranks into Hide and Move Silently if my mount is not as good at this?

[Flying Dice]

In regards to Island of Blades, you'd need to dip Swordsage for it, which might not work out so well for you. As far as I know, RAW says that you can use it while mounted, unless that was explicitly denied in a FAQ or bit of errata that I haven't heard of. IIRC you're planning on doing Ranger/Rogue, correct? It's already questionable since you've burned your 'dead' level in Rogue on Ranger 1. Something like a mounted Rogue planning on doing Rogue 19/Swordsage 1 could make pretty good use of it, but taking it instead of a level of Rogue now would cut into your peak sneak attack dice as well as delaying your level advancement.

Basically, you're dipping both Swordsage for increased reliability on your precision damage, but the fact that you're multiclassing Ranger means that your Sneak Attack is going to be sub-par compared to a straight Rogue already, and IMO it probably wouldn't be worthwhile dropping it further.

As far as the potential Rogue/Ranger breakdowns go, there are a couple points which balance class features about as well as possible for this combination: Rogue 9/Ranger 11, Rogue 3/Ranger 17, Rogue 15/Ranger 5, and so forth. I can't really see a good balance to insert Swordsage 1, except maybe into Rogue 13/Ranger 6/Swordsage 1 or Rogue 17/Ranger 2/Swordsage 1. In addition, since you're doing both archery AND TWF, you're already going to be feat-starved unless you burn all of your Rogue special abilities for extra feats or take Ranger all the way to 11th level for the combat mastery tree, which diminishes the possibility of you using feats to boost your sneak attack damage. Basically, if you were going to do straight Rogue I'd say to go for it; if you're planning on doing more than two Ranger levels, don't.

Pre-emptive edit: After reviewing the rules on mounted combat and everything I could find regarding it online, I haven't found anything that says that you shouldn't be able to use Island of Blades with your mount while mounted. That, and since the fact that rules for other circumstances allow both you and your mount to attack, provided the latter has a way to attack, I'd say you're probably good.

As for Hide and Move silently, unless you intend to spend literally all of your time mounted, you probably should. It's not like you have a dearth of skill points as a Rogue with a +2 Int modifier, after all.

[Harbingerjm]

In regards to Island of Blades, you'd need to dip Swordsage for it, which might not work out so well for you. As far as I know, RAW says that you can use it while mounted, unless that was explicitly denied in a FAQ or bit of errata that I haven't heard of. IIRC you're planning on doing Ranger/Rogue, correct? It's already questionable since you've burned your 'dead' level in Rogue on Ranger 1. Something like a mounted Rogue planning on doing Rogue 19/Swordsage 1 could make pretty good use of it, but taking it instead of a level of Rogue now would cut into your peak sneak attack dice as well as delaying your level advancement.

Basically, you're dipping both Swordsage for increased reliability on your precision damage, but the fact that you're multiclassing Ranger means that your Sneak Attack is going to be sub-par compared to a straight Rogue already, and IMO it probably wouldn't be worthwhile dropping it further.

As far as the potential Rogue/Ranger breakdowns go, there are a couple points which balance class features about as well as possible for this combination: Rogue 9/Ranger 11, Rogue 3/Ranger 17, Rogue 15/Ranger 5, and so forth. I can't really see a good balance to insert Swordsage 1, except maybe into Rogue 13/Ranger 6/Swordsage 1 or Rogue 17/Ranger 2/Swordsage 1. In addition, since you're doing both archery AND TWF, you're already going to be feat-starved unless you burn all of your Rogue special abilities for extra feats or take Ranger all the way to 11th level for the combat mastery tree, which diminishes the possibility of you using feats to boost your sneak attack damage. Basically, if you were going to do straight Rogue I'd say to go for it; if you're planning on doing more than two Ranger levels, don't.

Pre-emptive edit: After reviewing the rules on mounted combat and everything I could find regarding it online, I haven't found anything that says that you shouldn't be able to use Island of Blades with your mount while mounted. That, and since the fact that rules for other circumstances allow both you and your mount to attack, provided the latter has a way to attack, I'd say you're probably good.

As for Hide and Move silently, unless you intend to spend literally all of your time mounted, you probably should. It's not like you have a dearth of skill points as a Rogue with a +2 Int modifier, after all.

...The Kobold Rogue was referring to a different character. Unless I am mistaken, the current gnome character is going to be a ranger, not a rogue.

[Nerjin]

Okay... I'll allow the Badger to have this "Mighty Steed" thing you mentioned although I would like to point out that the Kobolds are beholden mostly to Dorogon. A badger will cost 15gp and you can start with it trained to ride for 20gp. I guess. That sound fair?

Please note that the party seems to be... A little... Uncohesive.

Eastley: Empire (Null), Rebellion (Distrusted), Clans (Null), Alkmaar (Creepy), Horde (CREEPY), Legions (CREEPY)

Devon: Empire (Hated), Rebellion (Positive), Clans (HATE), Alkmaar (Positive), Hordes (Loved), Legion (Null)

Venena: Empire (Null, Hates emperor), Rebellion (Supported), Clans (Disliked), Alkmaar (Liked), Horde (Liked), Legion (Support)

Sharos: Empire (Null), Rebellion (Null), Clans (Negatie), Alkmaar (Positive), Horde (Negative), Legion (Hated)

Jebeddi: Empire (Null), Rebellion (Null), Clans (Positive), Alkmaar (Creepy), Horde (Hated), Legion (Hated).

[Harbingerjm]

http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=1035617

As a minor note, is there a particular reason you're going Gnome Ranger rather than Ranger?

[Kassire]

Well, we will clearly make our own faction, the empire seems to be the most neutral, and thus the most available to piece apart, then it becomes a political game where we are trying to stay alive. Also, would there be a way other than feats to allow Warlocks have more then 12 Invocations?