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Total Members Voted: 17

[Andres]

I thought an angel was just and servant of a God.

A normal angel costs 4E a pop. They are extremely powerful. Just one regular angel beat 10 Paladins at once (Paladins were elite, combat-enhanced, immortal Humans decked out in armour heavier than a normal Human could move in.)

[Rolepgeek]

Andres.

Paladins are not as powerful as you think they were/are. Better than mundanes, yes. Immortal only in the sense that they don't age. And training only goes so far.

Also, lead armor is extremely heavy. It is also very ineffective. Weight =/= effectiveness.

[Quartz_Mace]

To clear up confusion:
$$$Price check on creating 100 (small: 7ft long 3.5 feet tall) Winged Dragon Servants that are capable of flying very high for long periods of time and shooting fireballs with extreme spread

[Andres]

Andres.

Paladins are not as powerful as you think they were/are. Better than mundanes, yes. Immortal only in the sense that they don't age. And training only goes so far.

Also, lead armor is extremely heavy. It is also very ineffective. Weight =/= effectiveness.

Dude, I spent Essence on giving them the combat-enhanced and immortal traits. Paladins were chosen for being the best of the best of an entire race's military, thus explaining why I called them "elite". You don't get to be the best of the best with just training. By "immortal" I really only meant unaging, like you said, but that's what we tend to call unaging things. They do not use lead armour - they use the highest-quality armour possible (some kind of steel) and they use so much of it that normal people can't use it.

To clear up confusion:
$$$Price check on creating 100 Winged Dragon Servants that are capable of flying very high for long periods of time and shooting fireballs with extreme spread

How big are these dragons? Standard dragons in this universe are as big as Smaug, based on KJP's description.

[Quartz_Mace]

Andres.

Paladins are not as powerful as you think they were/are. Better than mundanes, yes. Immortal only in the sense that they don't age. And training only goes so far.

Also, lead armor is extremely heavy. It is also very ineffective. Weight =/= effectiveness.

Try aluminum. That stuff is amazing! You can magically strengthen if needed.

[Andres]

Andres.

Paladins are not as powerful as you think they were/are. Better than mundanes, yes. Immortal only in the sense that they don't age. And training only goes so far.

Also, lead armor is extremely heavy. It is also very ineffective. Weight =/= effectiveness.

Try aluminum. That stuff is amazing! You can magically strengthen if needed.

Aluminium isn't steel and it can't be made at current tech levels.

[Stirk]

Aluminium isn't steel and it can't be made at current tech levels.

Well, it is weaker and doesn't make great armor (which is why we don't make tanks out of it, without steel skirts). We could make it, what with alchemy and being Gods and all. It is also naturally forming, so it isn't like the mortals would have trouble making it. I mean, you can even get it in DF!

[Andres]

We could make it, what with alchemy and being Gods and all. It is also naturally forming, so it isn't like the mortals would have trouble making it. I mean, you can even get it in DF!

Hey yeah I forgot about alchemy! Naturally-formed aluminium is pretty rare, though. If I remember correctly it was rarer than gold during Napoleon's time.

[Rolepgeek]

And I spent essence on my Templars. That doesn't make them invincible killing machines.

Also, highest-quality armor is extremely relative...and sometimes more agility is better than more armor. Especially in the case of magic.

Additionally: the best of the best of 'an entire races military', when said race is actually fairly tiny(3-5 Million?), and militaries tend to be fairly small compared with total population, especially when not actively at war. And it's not all of a single nation. And not all humans worshiped Yaos(especially the best militaries, who probably worshiped Fusil primarily for a good long while, at the very least).

But all of that is besides the point. I don't want to argue the specifics, because that's pointless. The fact is, they are not stupendously powerful. They are humans, blessed by their god, and given special equipment. That is by no means weak, but it is not strong enough to justify the way you're using them as a basis for stuff. No matter how strong you are, if you don't have a weapon to match that strength, you won't be able to fight effectively. A fist simply doesn't cut it, gauntlet or no, if you're fighting a dragon, and are still made of human flesh and bone. And besides which, no matter how enhanced, they were still Human.

Sidenote: Rare on earth, sure. Earth's got a weird distribution of elements. Why not just use titanium or tungsten carbide, though, in that case?

[Andres]

And I spent essence on my Templars. That doesn't make them invincible killing machines.

I don't believe that Paladins are invincible killing machines. I just believe they're better than any Human elite.

Additionally: the best of the best of 'an entire races military', when said race is actually fairly tiny(3-5 Million?), and militaries tend to be fairly small compared with total population, especially when not actively at war. And it's not all of a single nation. And not all humans worshiped Yaos(especially the best militaries, who probably worshiped Fusil primarily for a good long while, at the very least).

Even if the "best of the best" wasn't that great, the Paladins had either been fighting training for centuries prior to fighting the angel. I think that makes up for not being all that elite when just a normal Human.

I think I've made all my points.

[Rolepgeek]

...training doesn't work that way...

[DreamerGhost]

Andres, I will try to use something familiar to you. Pladins were elites, the cream of the crop, armed with best stuff and magicly enchanted. Basicly Space Marines of 40k. Now go through 40k and look at all the things that can kill a Space Marine without breaking a sweat. Thats a pretty expansive list, amirite?

Of course, since the populace is much smaller, peak is way lower. Basicly, a space marine would kill ten paladins without breaking a sweat with equal gear on both sides. It would probably kill hundrets. But that list of "eats SM for breakfeast" is still there. And we are dealing with crap from that list. I called the parasites facehugers, but the can as well be genestealers.

The main problem is, that Paladins and Angels to which they were measured are both your creations, as such, any result is inconclusive. If you want to test out how powerfull your Paladins are compared to what we deal with, send a squad of paladins against squad of battle golems in DB plane. See how that works out. Then you will have another basis to which you can compare paladins to. And something to compare angels to. Who knows, mabye we will start using PEQ as a unit of power measurment. "Angel is 10PEQ. Common soldier is 0.5PEQ. Tykki is ∞PEQ"

[Quartz_Mace]

Aluminium isn't steel and it can't be made at current tech levels.

Well, it is weaker and doesn't make great armor (which is why we don't make tanks out of it, without steel skirts). We could make it, what with alchemy and being Gods and all. It is also naturally forming, so it isn't like the mortals would have trouble making it. I mean, you can even get it in DF!

Aluminum's actually pretty tough. The reason it was never made into plate armor was because it could not be made in large concentrations at the time. It's actually really tough for it's weight, though. I was saying it would be a good base material for magic armor dice you could strengthen it further and make it even lighter.

[Cptn Kaladin Anrizlokum]

Problem with a power measurement is that power is relative. For example, a squad of swordsmen would be easily defeated by a single member of The Boots of Soaking (Serac's mortal fighter group) but a couple of mages could be a problem for the whole group.

[Andres]

Anyone know any show that featured the killing of tentacles? Not that I'm gonna try to genocide the Armu of anything, or course. That would be suicidal.

Elfen Lied? Haiyore Nyaruko San? Soul Eater?

Lies.