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[Varee]

Also i figure out how to uncreate mortal, It invovle a large rock that move very fast and a big collision .....

[Stirk]

((Graded free will wasn't. Check right under it.))

(Graded free will meant starting them out with none, then slowly giving them more. We just gave them total free will from the start, a much better option)

"You couldn't, actually. I know most of the limits of our godly power; I have done some experiments."

"Again, you are fooling yourself. As it was made without council approval, there is little that is keeping us from unmaking them, especially if two or more of us team up to do so. Our godly power has no limit."

"They are under our guidance, at least until they are ready to be truly independent. Yes, the father of a criminal should be punished, if he didn't teach his son properly. If it was the child disobeying the father's teachings, then he is not at fault."

"If you truly believe that, I have trouble intrusting you with the laws of this world. Only the criminal should be punished for his crimes, you can not place the blame on others simply because it suits your purpose to do so. Punishing others for the crime of someone is a gross miscarriage of justice."

so how about you explain how this game of yours work?

"Really? Well...It uses this weapon called a "Revolver", currently far above the tech-level of the mortals. I then point it at your head and pull the trigger until you die. Needs some work, I am not the god of gambling."

[IcyTea31]

"Again, you are fooling yourself. As it was made without council approval, there is little that is keeping us from unmaking them, especially if two or more of us team up to do so. Our godly power has no limit."

"Cross me and I will show you where your powers end. God of Weapons or not, for I wouldn't need one."

"If you truly believe that, I have trouble intrusting you with the laws of this world. Only the criminal should be punished for his crimes, you can not place the blame on others simply because it suits your purpose to do so. Punishing others for the crime of someone is a gross miscarriage of justice."

"Let me put this in terms you will certainly understand. If you shoot someone, do you punish the bullet?"

[Stirk]

"Cross me and I will show you where your powers end. God of Weapons or not, for I wouldn't need one."

"Watch your tongue, God of Order. Have I been anything but supportive of you up to this point? Surly you realize how protective I am of my followers. You should know in law, a threat like that would justify me acting on self defense. I am sure neither of us want a war between ourselves, you would be wise to keep your arrogance at your ability to harm the ones I care about with no apparent fear of retaliation to yourself. Certainly, I would have more support in this than you would..."

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

"Let me put this in terms you will certainly understand. If you shoot someone, do you punish the bullet?"

"Guns do not kill, people do. People aren't guns, we gave them free will and the ability to act on their own."

"Aside from that, you are forgetting that we can control the other's followers, if we wish to do so, especially if we keep it subtle. You have seen me summon a bear towards a caravan, in order to teach them about the danger of the road and weapons, for instance. If instead I where to teach this lesson by driving a group of humans to banditry, should the God of Humans be punished?"

[IcyTea31]

"You should know in law, a threat like that would justify me acting on self defense."

"Perhaps if we had any laws. Act however you want, but beware: I know both our limits, and where mine aren't. You call me arrogant, I call you ignorant."

"Guns do not kill, people do. People aren't guns, we gave them free will and the ability to act on their own."

"Indeed. If we start go backwards, the bullet would have been hard to fire without the gun. The gun wouldn't have been built or fired if the man didn't know how to or want to. The man wouldn't have known how to build a gun or wanted to fire it if someone else hadn't taught him. And these someones can be traced back to you. Free will allows them to do what they want, but what we teach them tells them what to want."

If instead I where to teach this lesson by driving a group of humans to banditry, should the God of Humans be punished?"

"Not necessarily. For one, humans are unaligned right now, so in teaching them banditry you would claim them for yourself. If they were followers of Yaos, several things may happen. They might renounce Yaos and follow you instead, making you responsible. They might kill in the name of Yaos, in which case Yaos would be responsible for negligence, that is, not teaching them any better before someone else did. You would also break the Code in doing so, and you would be definitely punished, not only deemed responsible. They might also refuse banditry, being taught by Yaos to respect their fellow man, in which case only you have broken the Code. As noted, 'Responsibility MAY OR MAY NOT imply the necessity of sanctions.'"

[Cptn Kaladin Anrizlokum]

If there is to be a war, the sea will be a safe haven for anyone who wishes to escape the fighting. My creations will stay neutral unless attacked.

[Varee]

So how would a gun approach work on gambling if we god cant actually die? If you want to try Russian roulette thing-a-magicka, i suggest all the participant put in essence and who ever get"shot" get the pool, sound good?

[Stirk]

"Perhaps if we had any laws. Act however you want, but beware: I know both our limits, and where mine aren't. You call me arrogant, I call you ignorant."

"Just stay away from my followers and we will have no trouble. Surly the god of Law can see the value of debate instead of slaughtering those who disagree wit you. Just keep your hands off my Faithfull..."

"Indeed. If we start go backwards, the bullet would have been hard to fire without the gun. The gun wouldn't have been built or fired if the man didn't know how to or want to. The man wouldn't have known how to build a gun or wanted to fire it if someone else hadn't taught him. And these someones can be traced back to you. Free will allows them to do what they want, but what we teach them tells them what to want."

"Surly, you are joking? I cannot conceive how any logical being would put the blame the man who taught him how to fire the gun. Do we blame chemistry teachers for drug manufacturers? These people are responsible for themselves. The man who makes these things possible unintentionally is not at fault. You simply cannot place responsibility on people who had absolutely nothing to do with committing the crime, and no sane man would suggest otherwise."

"Not necessarily. For one, humans are unaligned right now, so in teaching them banditry you would claim them for yourself. If they were followers of Yaos, several things may happen. They might renounce Yaos and follow you instead, making you responsible. They might kill in the name of Yaos, in which case Yaos would be responsible for negligence, that is, not teaching them any better before someone else did. You would also break the Code in doing so, and you would be definitely punished, not only deemed responsible. They might also refuse banditry, being taught by Yaos to respect their fellow man, in which case only you have broken the Code. As noted, 'Responsibility MAY OR MAY NOT imply the necessity of sanctions.'"

"I would not have to teach them banditry. I wouldn't have to align them. I would simply have to subtly nudge them towards it, using the butterfly effect as I had with the bear. Make them fall asleep while cooking, burning their house down. Leave them with nothing but a weapon, just as the caravan went through. A group of people like that, and a new bandit group is formed. I wouldn't even have to do it in the open. You claim to have knowlage of the extent of our powers, but that seems to be once again your arrogance speaking for you. If you do not believe me, try something out for yourself."

So how would a gun approach work on gambling if we god cant actually die? If you want to try Russian roulette thing-a-magicka, i suggest all the participant put in essence and who ever get"shot" get the pool, sound good?

"Getting shot is supposed to be losing. How about everyone puts it into the pool, then whoever gets shot looses? The essence can than be split between the remaining gods, or the game can continue until only one remains."

(...Somehow, it feels like a bad idea to introduce Russian Rullette to the world...)

[Kilojoule Proton]

Varee: You attempt to cause some random natural disasters, but Fusil and Cim intervene and oppose your attempts. They end up not happening.

The Light: The Luminee continue to spread their influence, encouraged by your approval. They create shrines to you everywhere.

Serac: You spread the news about the neutrality of the sea-dwellers. There is a fairly large influx of migrants trying to escape the imminent war.

[IcyTea31]

"Just stay away from my followers and we will have no trouble. Surly the god of Law can see the value of debate instead of slaughtering those who disagree wit you. Just keep your hands off my Faithfull..."

"Who said anything about slaughter? I didn't. That would be more suitable for you, I prefer subtler methods. For example, what if I said you have already lost this war we're drifting towards?"

"Surly, you are joking? I cannot conceive how any logical being would put the blame the man who taught him how to fire the gun. Do we blame chemistry teachers for drug manufacturers? These people are responsible for themselves. The man who makes these things possible unintentionally is not at fault. You simply cannot place responsibility on people who had absolutely nothing to do with committing the crime, and no sane man would suggest otherwise."

"If you make something possible unintentionally, you hadn't thought over the full ramifications of it. Ignorance when you could know is no excuse for a mistake. Having absolutely nothing to do with committing a crime is false if there is a way to stop it, for inaction is also an action. I wouldn't blame a chemistry teacher for a drug manufacturer, unless that teacher specifically taught him to make drugs. I would blame the one who did, and the one who allowed it to happen. If we assume this person is the new inventor of drugs, who made them existing possible in the first place? Us, the gods. And we could prevent it using various means. And for that final quip, would you call any of us by your definition of sane?"

((Knowledge of guns I can handwave easily, but of chemistry teachers and drug manufacturers? Let's think inside the box of our little fantasy world that has nothing resembling modern real life chemistry, shall we?))

"I would not have to teach them banditry. I wouldn't have to align them. I would simply have to subtly nudge them towards it, using the butterfly effect as I had with the bear. Make them fall asleep while cooking, burning their house down. Leave them with nothing but a weapon, just as the caravan went through. A group of people like that, and a new bandit group is formed. I wouldn't even have to do it in the open. You claim to have knowlage of the extent of our powers, but that seems to be once again your arrogance speaking for you. If you do not believe me, try something out for yourself."

"I can think of many ways that scenario could resolve, and spontaneously inventing banditry seems unlikely. More likely, they'd ask for help from the caravan, or whatever their particular god had taught them. They simply don't have the independence to suddenly decide to abandon society. The Butterfly Effect is one of the methods of applying power with a high limit. However, it does have some limits, as for example complexity and thus unlikeliness increases."

[Andres]

If he is arrogant enough to claim complete lordship over something he never even made then I care little if he feels antagonized by my actions towards the humans.

And are you honestly going to go along with that just because of his title? Perhaps I should declare myself the God of all creation and declare holy war and lay down curses on anyone who touches anything under my "domain". They weren't even humans who follow him. Maybe I'll make my secondary sphere plants and complain when your creations feed themselves.

It's absolutely ridiculous and a situation only caused by him claiming all of something he had no part in but an empty title and then having the audacity to think his claim is of more worth than anyone else's.

"I shall remind you that I have direct power over all humans. I simply choose not to indulge it. I have already made a new race that feeds on the sun alone, and would only hunger underground where they cannot fit in the first place, or while they are asleep and thus do not feel it. Making a new race of humans that does not feel hunger is a trivial thing for me. So do not insult me again..."
Yaos turns into his female form.
"...you big meanie!" D:<

Yaos changes the definitions of the Humanos Grande to conform to specific metres in height rather than just multiples of human height. She also increases the size of current Humanos to 15m and creates 800 more of these new Humanos Grande, with an additional 8 Controller Agenls to link with them.

"So Fusil, I've been thinking really hard and I don't want the sword to be alive. I just seems kinda wierd, you know? But still, thank you for making it. It's reaaaaalllllly nice!" :D "I'll get my little Emperor to keep working on my end of the deal now. It's just so difficult to do with all the war going on." ;)

The Emperor takes the shrines and upgrades them to full-on Churches of Fusil. He also makes owning a weapon mandatory among any and all who have a profession or a job.

OPPOSE 11.00.

Spoiler: New Humanos Grande (click to show/hide)

In the Human Plane, Yaos picks 10 devout Yaos-worshipping human warriors and creates 10 prototypes of Humanos Grande. These new Humanos Grande have physical appearances similar to the 10 humans that were picked and have a weak psi-link connecting them. When ordered to by their respective humans, they shall pick them up and place them in a secret spot (PMing GM where the weak spot is) where the human shall assume direct, non-psi control over the Humanos. Flesh and/or muscles and/or bone (won't say specifically, might tip you guys off where the weak spot is) will cover them and protect them.
Unlike regular Humanos Grande, this new breed of Humanos is not sentient in the least, and is even less than most animals. While not being controlled by their human, they are completely inert, bending at one knee while inactive. They are activated when their human controller uses their psi-link to order the Humanos to pick up the human and place them in the control spot. This is the only thing the new Humanos is capable of doing in a fashion that could even be interpreted as doing on its own.
The point of these new Humanos is to allow for the destructive capability of a regular Humanos Grande but with the intelligence of a human.
Angels could theoretically pilot their own Humanos but they, like regular pilots, would have to be psi-linked manually in order to pilot them. Humans are used because if mass production of the new Humanos is initiated, humans would make far cheaper pilots than angels, and the new Controlado can't fly while angels can. Angels can't fly when controlling the new Humanos.
Angels can still order these Humanos to combust by giving them an oral order. Assuming the Humanos can hear it, it WILL combust, regardless of whether a human is inside or not. This combustion only triggers if the angel explicitly states that that specific Humanos should burn; any mass-orders given to Humanos to combust will not affect the new Humanos.
This new variant of Humanos Grande shall be called Humanos Grande Controlado - Humanos Controlado for short or just 'Controlado' for shortest.
When the prototypes and testing is complete, the new soldiers will be ported back to the Empire to serve the Angel-Emperor.

Yaos makes it so that devout followers have increased magical potential.

Having invented clubbing already, Yaos once again goes to Slysha to hang out with her prophet a bit more, to see how they're doing over there.

[Vgray]

Azem summons his angels to report on their doings recently.

[Stirk]

"Who said anything about slaughter? I didn't. That would be more suitable for you, I prefer subtler methods. For example, what if I said you have already lost this war we're drifting towards?"

"I would remind you that it is a lie on all fronts. We are not drifting to war, and you would not have won. Surly, a random conversation about a law that would not be passed anyway is not a valid start for any war, we would all be ashamed to let it be."

((Knowledge of guns I can handwave easily, but of chemistry teachers and drug manufacturers? Let's think inside the box of our little fantasy world that has nothing resembling modern real life chemistry, shall we?))

(I was going to use "Bomb" instead of drugs, but remembered that as a Chemistry student with an already strange computer history, I should probably keep the B-word to a minimum. It would have fit Fusil better, but I would rather *not* be questioned by the government any time soon.)

"I would certainly call myself sane, perhaps the only one among us to be so. Being able to prevent something is different than being guilty of it. For example, if I had stabbed a random human through the back without anyone noticing, would the God of Humans be held responsible? No, as the killer it would be all on me. What if he taught him the use of drugs that I made, for healing the wounded, and simply misused them? It is simply a tool, and you can not blame the one who made the tool for the crime done with it. We can prevent some things, but that does not make us complacent in every crime that happens,  by the simple fact not even we know of most of them or what will truly be the outcome of any of our actions.

"I can think of many ways that scenario could resolve, and spontaneously inventing banditry seems unlikely. More likely, they'd ask for help from the caravan, or whatever their particular god had taught them. They simply don't have the independence to suddenly decide to abandon society. The Butterfly Effect is one of the methods of applying power with a high limit. However, it does have some limits, as for example complexity and thus unlikeliness increases."

"And have you experimented with those limits, as you have claimed? I can make the caravan refuse. Banditry already exists, if I did not misread several reports, they wouldn't have to invent something new. Of course, seeing as the god of humans is about to get into a war, there is little doubt he would be able to hear or answer every sad prayer that comes his way immediately. Even then, as a god of Weapons, I could simply inspire the to believe that the Caravan are the ones who burned down the houses to improve sales, or just fill them with irrational blood-lust. They would not have time to communicate with their god until after. If you don't believe my hypothetical, why not try the domino effect to a similarly complicated degree, so we can see if it works or not? I would be happy to think of a suitable experiment if you do not."

"So Fusil, I've been thinking really hard and I don't want the sword to be alive. I just seems kinda wierd, you know? But still, thank you for making it. It's reaaaaalllllly nice!" "I'll get my little Emperor to keep working on my end of the deal now. It's just so difficult to do with all the war going on."

"Suite thyself. A weapon should fit the wielder."

(won't say specifically, might tip you guys off where the weak spot is)

(Nape of the neck. DUH. Your entire character runs off of references. )

[Andres]

(won't say specifically, might tip you guys off where the weak spot is)

(Nape of the neck. DUH. Your entire character runs off of references. )

(Correction: ALL of my characters in ALL of my games run off of references. With exactly TWO exceptions.)

"Can't we just stop fighting you guys? You're tearing me apart with all your arguing." :'(

What kind of prayers is Yaos getting from Kenath? Slysha is irrelevant.

[Vgray]

(won't say specifically, might tip you guys off where the weak spot is)

(Nape of the neck. DUH. Your entire character runs off of references. )

(Correction: ALL of my characters in ALL of my games run off of references. With exactly TWO exceptions.)

"Can't we just stop fighting you guys? You're tearing me apart with all your arguing."

What kind of prayers is Yaos getting from Kenath? Slysha is irrelevant.

"Do I dare even comment on that?"