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[Enchiridion]

As for ease of implementation, I'm 85% certain that these new buildings, reactions, designations and such will be a good deal simpler than giving dwarves 119 emotions.

ok point taken.

[Adrian]

A more dwarfy way i think would be something like optimizing an object for a specific purpose over several iterations of innovation. (ie. Several great dwarven innovators/inventors redesign swords over several generations to hold a progressively sharper edge)

You mean, something like Teeth on a Stick -> Microlith Blade -> Smelting -> Crude Short Sword -> Casting -> Forge -> Short Sword -> Fuller Groove -> Steel -> Pattern Welding -> Differential Hardening?

I was thinking more along the lines of "Instead of defining a sword as an object, lets define a sword as an object template." The template could define properties like sizes of the hilt and blade, sharpness of the edge, amount of materials consumed in construction, etc.

Then individuals could apply modifications to that template during innovative moments.
While the templates would be common knowledge in the world, effectively letting every peasant with knowledge of metalworking fashion a simple sword, the modifications would not be. I expect them to be bound to either the civ or the site. Exotic designs from secretive moods could even be person-bound.
And if/when/once writing becomes a thing, books and parchment could hold those designs. Letting you trade designs with the outside world. (Or have them stolen from you by thieving diplomats)

We could still have discrete designs "unlocked" after passing certain criteria. Like "unlocking" longswords after tinkering with the sword design has increased the length of the blade to a certain amount. And then the same for ballistae when crossbows become unwieldy large and powerful.

It shouldn't be just weapons that could get innovated on:

• Doors, floodgates, hatches and grates: Size, strength, delay and pick resistance.
• Chains: Strength and length.
• Buckets, barrels, bins, chests and cabinets: Size, strength and capacity.
• Chairs and beds: Size and general comfyness(?).
• Etc.
• Etc.

And if tools ever become a thing they could get optimized to be faster/more accurate/simpler to use/etc, indirectly optimizing your workshops and hospitals.

But the real difficulty lies in making these events of invention and innovation happen enough so that the player stays interested and can reap the benefits from them, but not so common that the first fort in a new world can become a hyper-optimized superpower all by itself.

[Enchiridion]

Did someone say tools?

No but shameless self advertisement aside, I like the template idea. I feel it would ad a lot of options. Though one thing to note is that steel is kindof an innovation as well. So would you also allow dwarves to innovate new metals, submetals and so on?

Also, since the thread was originally about moods, what about moods where the dwarf sets off on a quest and maybe comes back later with some cool new stuff, like a new weapon, or new knowledge etc?

[SixOfSpades]

No, the thread's NOT dead! There's just a metric crapton of research to go through. I've been reading about frits, and barkcloth, and wolf intervals.

I'm about to go update page 5 with all of the Infrastructure moods, but first here are some lists:

New Buildings    Alchemist's Laboratory    Dairy    Bakery?    Painter's Studio    Pottery Studio    Chandlery (replaces Soap Maker's Workshop)    Smoker    Boiler / Magma Boiler    Steam Engine / Magma Engine    Treadmill    Capstan    Winch    Tinker's Workshop / Magma Tinker's    Pile    Magma Catapult    Winery    Brewery    Ropery    Sawmill    Pulp Mill    Luthier's Shop    Great Loom New Skills/Labors    Alchemist (already existing, just used now)    Military Tactician (already existing, just used now)    Chandler    Gardener    Dairydwarf (name & some functional changes from Cheesemaker)    Baker?    Painter (name change from Glazer)    Tinker (name & some functional changes from Metalcrafter)    Distiller    Vintner    Roper    Luthier New Furniture    Mantlet    Braced Pike    Heavy Crossbow / Reloading Crossbow    Murder Hole    Maggot Hive    Autoclave / Magma Autoclave    Block & Tackle    Weight Bench    Lockjaw Trap (both small & large sizes)    Icebox    Churn    Brazier    Lamp / Candle / Lantern    Mirror    Clock    Automaton    Fountain    Bell / Gong    Handbell (sometimes carried)    Harpsichord    Pipe organ    Harmonium    Carillon    Carpet / Floor mat    Tapestry    Bathing Tub    Gem Lantern    Stocks / Pillory    Weather Station New "Creatures"    Sledge    Cart    Scratch Plow / Moldboard Plow    Wagon (a real one)    Chariot

New Items    Wood Axe / Double Axe    Incendiary Bolts / Arrows    Poison Darts    Javelins    Tower Shield    Fur (multiply per # of valid animals)    Vambrace    Coif    Gorget    Pauldron    Cuisse    Faulds    Codpiece    Padded Coif    Padded Shirt    Padded Skirt    Padded Leggings    Animal Helmet (multiply by # of valid animals)    Animal Barding (multiply by # of valid animals)    Wheelchair    Boiled wine    Herbal tea    Ether    Laudanum    Fertilizer    Hard Biscuit    Diving Bell    Flippers    Lumber (multiply by # of woods)    Mortar / Cement    Quarrying Drill / Drill Bit    Magnifying Glass / Loupe    Piston Pump    Water Barrow    Spring    Mining Helmet    Chrysotile (stone)    Asbestos (fiber / thread / cloth)    Fritware goblets / vials / other glass vessels    Faience figurines / necklaces / other clay & glass crafts    Barkcloth (both soft & tough varieties)    Pocket belt    Comb    Makeup kit    Dice    Marbles    Chess set    Gaming Tiles    Card deck    Bowling ball / Bowling pins    Leather ball    Papyrus    Parchment    Paper    Shofar / Conch trumpet    Panpipe    Mandore / Guitar    Dulcimer    Serpent / Tuba    Clarinet / Oboe / Bassoon / Bombard    Handbells (usually built)    Bagpipes    Accordion    Music Boxes    Windup toys Technologies I'm Deliberately Avoiding    Gunpowder / Explosives    Oil / Petroleum / Natural Gas    Mounts (dwarves riding animals)    Electricity    Boats    Religion    Bowed string instruments Technologies I'm Just Barely Touching    Poison    Flight

I think I'll arrange all of the Innovation into 4 tiers, at least as far as "vanilla" Fortress Mode is concerned:
   The lowest will contain all of the more basic things, technologies that are already treated as "researched" by the default game, and in my opinion should remain so. I'm even including some, like Sledge, that would be considered obsolete and even archaic by "modern" dwarf standards. For the most part, giving names to the Innovations in this tier is only to support later research that would depend on them. If anyone (like Skullsploder) wants to dissect this tier and work the stone-age end of this plan, that'll be fine by me.
   The second tier holds Innovations that are new but relatively basic: Technologies that are not yet already known to dwarves in a "standard" embark, but that I think should be. Things like Earth-Moving, Crippling Blows, Herbal Medicine, Mortar, and Shofar.
   The third tier is for aspects that are already part of the game as it currently stands, but that I personally feel are "advanced" enough to warrant putting them behind a lucky Innovation. I've already mentioned things like Steel, Minecarts, and Beekeeping, but if one wanted to be particularly hardcore this category could be greatly expanded, perhaps even including ALL surface farming.
   The 4th tier will house all of the most high-tech advancements, and improvements to existing designs: things like Stiletto, Antibiotics II, Icebox, Mining Helmet, and Enamel. The lion's share of Innovations in a vanilla game of Fortress Mode would be from this tier.

I was thinking more along the lines of "Instead of defining a sword as an object, lets define a sword as an object template . . . Then individuals could apply modifications to that template during innovative moments.

Yeah, I'm fine with this. Just because a Strange Mood doesn't unlock some new and (questionably) wondrous technology doesn't mean it can't cause incremental improvements on existing designs. Both types would almost certainly still be compatible with Toady's main plan for artifacts, which ties in with the Magic arc.

But the real difficulty lies in making these events of invention and innovation happen enough so that the player stays interested and can reap the benefits from them, but not so common that the first fort in a new world can become a hyper-optimized superpower all by itself.

Innovations should strike so rarely that players get excited about the prospect of unlocking important techs like Pauldron or Canning, and disappointed about relatively meaningless ones like Waxed Stitches or Fresco. Innovations should help a fort succeed, while not being enough to make it succeed.
I'm not sure what you mean by "the first fort in a new world" . . . if you mean embarking at Year 1 with Stone-Age tech, then yes, by all means that fort should take several hundred years, far beyond the patience of most players, to reach the tech level of a vanilla DF embark. But I wouldn't worry about any fort becoming a superpower based largely on tech, because as your fort advances, so should everyone else, in their own ways. Goblins invent things, too, and each civilization can learn from its neighbors, either through trade or from poking through the dead bodies to see if they had anything interesting on them. Goblins may even deserve a higher rate of Innovations than dwarves get, because of their higher populations. One dude living alone in the wilderness isn't going to invent jack (he'll make enough to get by, but that's pretty much it), but a metropolis of thousands will have all those brains rubbing against one another, and competing.

Did someone say tools?

The "zones as workshops" plan has tons of potential, and I'm glad it's planned. I was thinking about it with my Stone Saw Innovation, about how the Innovation would add the saw to the tools that were already considered part of the Masonry Shop Zone, and this addition would improve the Zone's efficiency. (I'm still unsure about how Miners would use the saws, though. They might have to be allotted like picks.)

I like the template idea. I feel it would ad a lot of options.

Options? No, it adds the potential for tech improvements without actual tech advancement. Suppose a Weaponsmith who likes swords gets a Possession, Secretive, or Fey mood. So even though he's not going to invent Fuller Groove or whatever, he can still improve your fort's swordsmithing practices to some degree.

Though one thing to note is that steel is kind of an innovation as well. So would you also allow dwarves to innovate new metals, submetals and so on?

Yes, all of the alloys are already grouped into four Innovations. I'm not 100% happy with them at the moment(as they stand now, bronze & bismuth bronze are in the same Innovation, so a fort with no access to bismuth can never invent bronze), but the system's good enough for a working model.

Also, since the thread was originally about moods, what about moods where the dwarf sets off on a quest and maybe comes back later with some cool new stuff, like a new weapon, or new knowledge etc?

You mean, sneak into a human, elven, or goblin stronghold after industrial secrets, the way snatchers go after babies?

"Espionage! Guard the tablets!"

But seriously, in order to go anywhere, he would first need a reason to do so, and that could only come from inter-civilization contact. If the goblins of the Malignant Jackal have invented Scale Armor, you don't need to go on some suicidal trek to find out how it's made, you've got it right in front of you! Sure, maybe you only saw the armor, and the goblin wearing it got away. But, rather than follow the goblin back to his Dark Tower, any sensible dwarf (an oxymoron, I know) would just build a few cage traps & wait for the goblin to come back. Sure, there are still some semi-plausible reasons to stage an expedition (e.g. Tired of waiting for the elves to bring any female grizzly bears, your Animal Trainers decide to go to elven lands & trap a couple of their own), but they seem like an awful lot of coding work for comparatively negligible returns.

[SixOfSpades]

Okay! I am pleased to report that Wikipedia & I have had a very long and fruitful relationship together, and the FULL, just-updated list of ALL my Innovations can now be found on page 5 of this thread. I have also updated the "New Stuff" lists in the post above. I shall now go data mining in past threads concerning technology and invention, and see if I can steal anything useful from there to add to the project.

Later on, I will be updating this thread with graphics, because if there's anything that people won't read, it's a wall of text, and the Innovations plan has one of those every frickin' where you turn. So I'll try to condense it all into a series of pretty pictures that show how the development of various industries has multiple technological breakthroughs, most of which depend upon previous discoveries. Then, a lot of you will complain that "Those drawings look like tech trees!" And then I will explain that, once you ignore the lower two tiers of technological progress (those Innovations which are assumed to have already been researched upon starting a regular game of Fortress Mode) and just focus on the upper two tiers (those Innovations which are left for your dwarves to actually discover / invent), what you are left with looks a lot more like tech grass.

[Ambidextrous]

PTW.
Wow, you guys have done a lot of work.

[endlessblaze]

personally I like artifacts and moods as they are now. my only want in that department is for

◄items► to be implemented soon

most likely  as artifacts, though tech advancement is a interesting concept. perhaps these ideas could be options in the int.text

classic artifacts and moods/or/new artifact and mood mechanics

this would solve the OP's problem of disliking the current system and the problems of those like myself favoring our current system.

(if you don't know what this-◄items► means check your item designation table in game or on wiki)

[SixOfSpades]

personally I like artifacts and moods as they are now. my only want in that department is for ◄items► to be implemented soon most likely  as artifacts

That's good, because this plan leaves most Strange Moods completely unchanged (it simply inserts a new type of Mood), and generates artifacts in the exact same manner. Yes, artifacts will eventually change to be magical in nature.

though tech advancement is a interesting concept. perhaps these ideas could be options in the int.text

Yes, we've considered that--turning Moods On/Off is already in there, so it seems a trivial matter to have a similar switch to Include/Exclude the Inspiration as a possible mood type.

Wow, you guys have done a lot of work.

All for naught, more than likely: I'm dredging the depths of the Suggestion forum now, and it seems like every good idea I've had recently is just a rerun of somebody who thought of it first. This thread, for example, is a suggestion for adding asbestos to the game, and it dates from 2006. But the kicker is here, a thread from 2008 (and even before, there's a now-dead link to an earlier discussion on the same topic) that hits just about every single main point of the Innovations plan:

• Technological advancement
• A high degree of randomness
• Inventions are a result of a new type of Strange Mood
• Innovations are based on a (high-level) skill that the dwarf already has
• Each fort must have its own unique techs

They even got my ideas for a Magma Catapult and a completely useless flying machine in there.

That's what I've been seeing. What I'm not seeing is any of these suggested changes actually making their way into the game, or into the devlogs, or even into Toady One the Great or Threetoe leaving a post on the thread about how the idea for tech advancement might have potential. Heck, implementing asbestos should be dead easy, it's practically a carbon copy of adamantine with a few numbers changed, but it was suggested 8 years ago and it still doesn't exist. So, just about the only conclusion I can draw from that is that Toady doesn't want it to exist . . . and the same likely goes for the Innovations project as well.

So I'm not feeling too optimistic about the Innovations plan's chances of actual implementation. I'll keep working on it, because I deem it a good idea that deserves to be taken to completion, but I won't be pinning my hopes & dreams on it or anything.

[Dozebôm Lolumzalěs]

Toady?  Please...

This would be so awesome!  The game would be so much better!  As stated, you've spent time on hundreds of emotions.     Why would you not like this?

[Manveru Taurënér]

Toady?  Please...

This would be so awesome!  The game would be so much better!  As stated, you've spent time on hundreds of emotions.     Why would you not like this?

Have you read the dev log lately? ^^

[SixOfSpades]

Just to keep you posted, I'm still adding to the list of possible innovations (the most recent one was Lathe), but there's yet more research to be done. I've caught up with every single technology-related thread that the Suggestions forum's ever had, and am now chewing on some books.
How Invention Begins, Echoes of the Old Voices in the Rise of New Machines, by John H. Lienhard is pretty good, but the real star here is . . .
Ancient Inventions, by Peter James & Nick Thorpe. It's got things like brain surgery in India in the 5th century BC, and the reaping "machine" (no actual moving parts, sadly) invented in Roman Gaul in the 1st century AD, and a similar design from 14th-century China, both of which were forgotten until the Roman version was repopularized in 19th-century Australia. Best of all, the book ignores everything after the year 1492, eerily close to Toady's own self-applied cutoff of 1400-1450ish. So just ignore the chapter on Sex Life (which doesn't seem likely to be added to the game) and a couple of da Vinci designs, and the ENTIRE rest of the book is relevant to DF.

Apart from that, the only real change I've decided on is that Inspiration moods should not produce actual artifacts. Let the other moods keep them, and once artifacts gain the magical properties that Toady's been hinting at, that will provide a nice balance between magic and technological innovation.

[Andeerz]

Oooo!  I think I like where things are going here, though there are several parts of this suggestion I don't really agree with.  I won't go into all of those, at least not right now.   

The main thing I am bothered by is that this suggestion is for a process unique to dwarves and that it is reliant on the "Strange Mood" mechanic which is pretty arbitrary and random in how it works. 

I wish to suggest more be done to make the "Inspiration" mood be reliant on more than just random chance as it seems to be in this suggestion right now.  I also feel that success of the mood towards actually having the dwarf (or any other entity) actually initiate a project not be guaranteed.

Here is why...

It is my understanding that inventing a new technology or making a discovery requires at least three things:

1. Prerequisite knowledge
2. The brilliant (or sometimes obvious) "aha!" moment
3. Satisfactory economic conditions for actually building/doing the darned thing the inventor/innovator has an idea for

The first two are, historically speaking, likely very common.  And DF seems to have the framework almost in place for #1.  #3 is likely very rare and absolutely crucial and, I believe, determines exactly how, why, and when discoveries/innovations/inventions actually occur IRL.  And from the perspective of DF, modeling this is what can really allow discovery/invention/innovations (as well as the implementation of these things!) to happen as emergent phenomena, and not just as a dice roll.

Allow me to give you some suggested reading that gives a perfect example of what I mean. 

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1468-0289.2010.00532.x/full
http://download.springer.com/static/pdf/601/art%253A10.1007%252FBF00374742.pdf?auth66=1427526831_a36591e1c63857740578d0b95850273f&ext=.pdf
Argh... there is one more I can't find right now dealing with how fast the steam engine improved after its initial invention... but I can' find it...


These deal with a technology past the 1400's cut-off (the steam engine), but what I find interesting about this technology is that, really, the prerequisite knowledge to construct something similar existed for well over a millennium.  And no, I don't buy that you need to know about air having weight to build a steam engine (a Newcomen steam engine, yes... but a steam-turbine-based engine... no)... but anyway, what is really important here, regardless of how long prerequisite knowledge for this technology existed, the actual implementation of that knowledge towards actually inventing something and making a prototype was dependent on more than just an "aha!" moment and putting two and two together.  It was dependent on economic factors, as well, which, both literally and figuratively, made inventing this thing relatively cheap enough or possibly profitable enough to take the risk of doing.  And then after it was invented with the first hideously inefficient prototypes, others saw it was possible, that there was a market for it, and then made their own, improving upon the design drastically and applying it towards other uses which ended up becoming the biggest uses for the technology.   

Some of these important economic factors are actually having a need or profitable reason for the invention or discovery or whatever (though this is not absolutely necessary... also keep in mind that the most useful uses for an invention/discovery/whatever can often come about after the invention is actually invented or discovery discovered etc.), and (perhaps more importantly) material/financial/other support to allow for the dedication of time and physical resources towards inventing/discovering something.   

This applies to more than just inventions of machines, tools, and stuff.  It also applies to more esoteric and non-immediately-practical discoveries (knowledge for knowledge's sake sort of stuff...).  For example, pouring resources to support the likes of Aristotle and Socrates and the like had no immediate practical gain, and those wealthy patrons and government institutions that supported them had no idea what their discoveries would be nor how they would affect things.  It was a risk these wealthy patrons could afford to take because of the economic situation of the times.  And their support is what in turn allowed these great minds to have the time and resources to dedicate to innovating and discovering things which down the line was useful. 

Overall what I mean to say is that I would love to see some way for this kind of suggestion to take into account (on both the world-gen level and fortress level) the economic factors that drive initial invention/discovery (including the initial inspiration and the execution), as well as the development and implementation of inventions/discoveries.  I will think on this some more and perhaps make my own suggestion thread if it is too off topic here...

BTW, I will see if I can hunt down those books! 

[SixOfSpades]

The main thing I am bothered by is that this suggestion is for a process unique to dwarves and that it is reliant on the "Strange Mood" mechanic which is pretty arbitrary and random in how it works.

Actually, previous comments (not that I'm expecting you, or indeed anyone, to have read them all) have stated that Innovations are not limited to dwarves: Every civilization, of every race, would have its own set of knowledge determined during worldgen. Customizable worldgen settings would allow for different settings of "base" tech level (roughly where everybody is at Year 0), a global rate of advancement (how fast everybody invents stuff after Year 0), and possibly the extent to which a civilization's discoveries will be influenced by that civ's gods (if you don't have a god of agriculture, you might not learn much about farming). Each civ would exit worldgen with an assortment of known technologies--some of which are part of a "required" core (everybody gets enough garments to cover all body parts, a couple of weapons, etc.), and some of which are basically random. Different civilizations might also willingly exchange knowledge with their trading partners & especially allies, and/or forcibly extract it from their enemies.

As for the randomness of Strange Moods, I've suggested making things more regular in a variety of ways. Tie the frequency of Moods (all of them) to the population of the fort: A fortress with 200+ dwarves should have 10 times the strange moods encountered in an outpost of just 20 people. "Regular" strange moods can strike anyone, but only those of above-average intellectual curiosity & creativity can become Inspired. An Inspiration, once it hits, will very likely, but not always, operate on that dwarf's highest-level skill. An Inspiration that fails (for whatever reason) does not cause the death of the dwarf, but rather lingers in the back of his mind, allowing him to try again at some other time.

I wish to suggest more be done to make the "Inspiration" mood be reliant on more than just random chance as it seems to be in this suggestion right now.

As shown, it's not all random, although some randomness is essential in order to ensure that each fortress discovers technologies that are different enough to make the fort feel different to play, thus making the game more interesting & increasing its replay value. Players are able to influence, but not entirely control, which Innovations get discovered, by locating their most invention-minded dwarves, and training them in fields that can give rise to the desired inventions. All told, this is pretty much exactly how Research & Development is conducted in the real world: Take your most experienced, creative workers, and keep throwing resources at them until they invent something. (Not necessarily what you wanted, but something.)

It is my understanding that inventing a new technology or making a discovery requires at least three things:
. . .
3. Satisfactory economic conditions for actually building/doing the darned thing the inventor/innovator has an idea for

That is a  requirement for the adoption of a new technology, not the invention of same. In my post yesterday, I mentioned a reaping machine--it was actually invented TWICE before it really caught on, because in both cases, it was invented under conditions with a surplus of cheap farm labor, and was therefore not a meaningful benefit to society--that had to wait until its removal to Australia, in the middle of a labor shortage. Inventors (especially dwarven ones, if what we've seen so far of their mentality is any indication) do not have to be especially concerned with the potential socioeconomic ramifications of their work--only the success or failure of the work itself. Besides, plenty of things are designed to have no meaningful impact on the overall function of society at all--yet everybody still knows about Rubik's Cubes, pointillism, and beatboxing.

[Bumber]

Besides, plenty of things are designed to have no meaningful impact on the overall function of society at all--yet everybody still knows about Rubik's Cubes, pointillism, and beatboxing.

Isn't pointillism basically how modern (i.e., dot-matrix and laser) printers work?

[Andeerz]

Actually, previous comments (not that I'm expecting you, or indeed anyone, to have read them all) have stated that Innovations are not limited to dwarves ... Different civilizations might also willingly exchange knowledge with their trading partners & especially allies, and/or forcibly extract it from their enemies.

Cool.  So long as innovation is not entirely dependent on strange moods, that is good.  I would hope that, say, with humans and gobbos, if I were to somehow have a mode where I control a city of theirs, that they would have the opportunity for innovations to occur with the absence of dwarfy strange moods.

As for the randomness of Strange Moods, I've suggested making things more regular in a variety of ways. Tie the frequency of Moods (all of them) to the population of the fort: A fortress with 200+ dwarves should have 10 times the strange moods encountered in an outpost of just 20 people. "Regular" strange moods can strike anyone, but only those of above-average intellectual curiosity & creativity can become Inspired. An Inspiration, once it hits, will very likely, but not always, operate on that dwarf's highest-level skill. An Inspiration that fails (for whatever reason) does not cause the death of the dwarf, but rather lingers in the back of his mind, allowing him to try again at some other time.

Hmmmm... I like that failure of inspiration shouldn't lead to death of the dwarf.  However, I do not think inspiration, whether a strange mood or something more subtle, should be tied to the population of the fort directly.  That seems too arbitrary and abstracted to me.  I think it ought to be tied to autonomous decision making on the part of the dwarf (or even a group of dwarves working together towards something), and that this decision making take into account free time and motivation which are influenced by the reality of life within the fort (for example, if everyone needs to spend every waking hour trying to survive or working towards something that precludes time for engaging in creative endeavors, the mood should not really be able to arise) as well as interactions with others (for example, being supported by a rich patron or being part of an institution that incentivizes/actively promotes spending time towards creative endeavors... much like, say, Hero of Alexandria was).  I have some loose ideas as to how this could be modeled...     

As shown, it's not all random, although some randomness is essential in order to ensure that each fortress discovers technologies that are different enough to make the fort feel different to play, thus making the game more interesting & increasing its replay value. Players are able to influence, but not entirely control, which Innovations get discovered, by locating their most invention-minded dwarves, and training them in fields that can give rise to the desired inventions. All told, this is pretty much exactly how Research & Development is conducted in the real world: Take your most experienced, creative workers, and keep throwing resources at them until they invent something. (Not necessarily what you wanted, but something.)

Ah.  Well this sort of ties into what I just said above... So, I do agree with this almost wholeheartedly (I don't like randomness arising from RNG stuff as much as I like things being "seemingly" random... think butterfly effect).  This is where the player should be involved; basically setting up the right environment for innovation.  It would be extremely hard to metagame if done correctly, and would actually be the result of decision making on the part of the player that would emulate stuff in real life to a cool degree!  And... even perhaps other entities within the game ought to be able to influence this kind of stuff.  For example, say a wealthy noble wishes to support a fight-master to develop some proposed weapon or contraption design that was advertised to her (check out some real life fight books!  They have this sort of stuff in them... and it is thought to have been a sort of advertisement to potential supporters (like a noble) as additional incentive to hire on the fight-master author of the book).  Or, perhaps an emperor hires on a group of engineers and directly supports them to develop a novel siege engine (like what happened in real life with the development of ballistae, I think).  These things ought to be possible in the game, I think!   

That is a  requirement for the adoption of a new technology, not the invention of same. In my post yesterday, I mentioned a reaping machine--it was actually invented TWICE before it really caught on, because in both cases, it was invented under conditions with a surplus of cheap farm labor, and was therefore not a meaningful benefit to society--that had to wait until its removal to Australia, in the middle of a labor shortage.

I disagree that this is not a requirement for invention.  Actually going forward with making a prototype or doing an experiment requires a decision about whether or not it is economically feasible and worth doing at that time (I mean the project itself, not the resulting invention or discover).  And even the inspiration to have the idea for the prototype or experiment is dependent on whether or not there is time (which is a resource directly tied to economic conditions) to engage in creative thinking in the first place.  So, if the resources and time are not available to put the ideas towards actually making the invention or doing an experiment, let alone having the time to have the idea in the first place, then it will not be done.  That is what I meant by satisfactory economic conditions being necessary for invention*.  However, I acknowledge that just because something is invented, it does NOT necessarily mean that anyone (even the inventor) thinks it is going to be useful or that it will in fact be useful after the fact.  In other words, necessity is not necessarily the mother of invention, and necessity is often found after the fact.  Necessity (or perceived necessity or utility) is a bonus, though!!!

*Just in case though... for example, if I was a carpenter who had to spend most of their waking day making products to get enough resources to survive, then it is exceedingly likely that I will not have the time to dedicate towards innovation and creative pursuits.  However, if the economic situation was such that I didn't have to make so many products to survive, I could afford to spend less time dedicated to survival, which would facilitate engaging in creative endeavors, which would then increase the probability of me actually getting inspired to innovate something.   

And, though the following doesn't have to be true for my above statement, I am familiar with the reaping machine.  I do not think the evidence is at all clear as to whether or not the invention provided a meaningful benefit to anyone in those areas where it was independently invented.  I think it was likely adopted and used to effect, or at least was made to address a perceived need, but that its use was restricted only a few places where perhaps it was useful at the time, which eventually saw this technology abandoned for economic reasons (perhaps labor became cheap enough there... or after its invention, people realized it wasn't useful after all, or perhaps whatever infrastructure was necessary to support the invention went away, or some combination of these... or not).

Inventors (especially dwarven ones, if what we've seen so far of their mentality is any indication) do not have to be especially concerned with the potential socioeconomic ramifications of their work--only the success or failure of the work itself. Besides, plenty of things are designed to have no meaningful impact on the overall function of society at all--yet everybody still knows about Rubik's Cubes, pointillism, and beatboxing.

It would be nice if they could, though.  It would make for a more believable and robust model of innovation.  And those examples that you mention, I agree that they were likely invented without any concern for them having a meaningful impact on society.  But, again, if the economic conditions were not there to allow for the time for invention to happen in the first place, then they would have not happened.  BUT, I should acknowledge here that by satisfactory economic conditions it does not necessarily mean a wealthy situation or a situation with less adversity.  Some innovations do not depend on the same factors as other innovations in order to come about...  For example, some forms of art came about in some pretty crummy situations, like the unique musical styles of slaves in the US or Brazil or Cuba which influence musical styles to this day.  And these art styles wouldn't have come about without the situation being as it was... I think this opens up a new vein of discussion, though...