Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

No

Only Judeism

Only Islam

Yes to both Judeism and Islam

[XXXXYYYY]

If anyone would do the same thing, free will or not, wouldn't that effectively nullify free will?

I don't see why it would. If a god decided to announce their existence, all it would do would be to settle some theological/moral questions, so I don't see the link between a god showing themselves and free will. Maybe I'm missing something, though.

[Helgoland]

Sorry Helgoland, I really don't see what point you are making. I am NOT claiming the bible to be propaganda in the way one could see things like Mein Kampf or Atlas Shrugged to be. I am simply questioning Christians if they think the Bible should be seen as a book that acts to convince people. The nature of Das Kapital has no real bearing on if the bible could be seen to have this property or not.

Alright, let me try this again: Propaganda as I used it is anything that gets people to come over to your side. Under this definition you claim that the bible must be propaganda. Since Das Kapital is not propaganda, that logical implication is false.
I'm sorry, I can't think of any way to make this more clear!

[Orange Wizard]

It's really sodding hard to make people change their mind, especially when it comes to God/religion/whatever. Brains are weird like that.

Is it really strange that you're not changing people's minds when you aren't giving them any evidence to show them your belief is true?

[scrubbed]

Religion/god/whatever beliefs are not ones that are based upon evidence. Perceived evidence, sure, but ultimately there is none - to conclusively prove or disprove.

[Leafsnail]

That's basically what I said, I don't see why you're being sarcastic in response?

[Orange Wizard]

I thought you were doing the whole attacky thing. My apologies.

[Vilanat]

The frequent use of "This is the word of the Lord" "And the Lord spoke through" "...declares the Lord" and similar phrases tends to indicate it. The pentateuch (or first five books - I'm not sure if I'm supposed to call them the pentateuch) are also, I think, attributed to Moses, who was one of the greatest prophets, although the term is a little odd applied to him. Leviticus and Deuteronomy are also basically the recording of God's word to Moses on Mount Sinai, again, if I remember right.

Also, I think it's generally agreed that the Bible hasn't been altered much.

Doesn't the verbs that explicitly emphasis that "This is the word of god" makes the ones who aren't "This is not the word of god"? otherwise as someone mentioned, why explicitly mention this fact in several places and in other attribute the words to the human writers?

And AFAIK, while the OT does attribute the pentateuch as divine inspiration, the other books of the bible do not have this special attribute (beside perhaps pslams? but even there the book itself points out to several authors).

Is it generally agreed upon? by who? And isn't altering but few passages can be an indication that altering did occur and might had been done so even more extensively? i am not talking about translating or altering past the finalizing of the canon, but editing before that and while at that (Picking and choosing which books fit in the Bible as being divinely inspired). surely, the editors must have had divine inspiration themselves in order to recognize which of the books was written under divine inspiration?

[Baffler]

The question, as far as I'm aware, wasn't so much "were these books (now apocryphal) divinely inspired?" but more thins like "were these books actually written by the apostles" or "was this verse tacked on long after the original was written?" and other such concerns.

[freeformschooler]

Interesting article on Christianity in China.

[Frumple]

... on one hand, oppression bad, etc., etc.

On the other hand, part of me can't help but think that a heavily christian influenced china -- especially of the sort that's apparently gaining traction there the fastest -- is among some of the worst possible outcomes we could see. We seriously don't need one of the largest and fastest growing populations in the world joining the sort that actively believes the end of the world is coming and therefore fuck the future. That would quite possibly end up a self-fulfilling prophecy

Not saying China's powers that be are going about it in the right way, but...

Kinda' conflicted on the topic, I am.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Yeah, most groups I've been seeing push hard to cause a Christian bloom in China. It's one of the last viable markets for it since you've got the state apparatus artificially stagnating religious identity. The goal is essentially to repeat what happened in the post-Soviet era in China.

I'm not sure what's going to happen regarding China in general, though. They're playing with fire economically. Eventually easy mode is going to come to an end and China will have to actually deal with their political and business models.

[Bohandas]

... on one hand, oppression bad, etc., etc.

On the other hand, part of me can't help but think that a heavily christian influenced china -- especially of the sort that's apparently gaining traction there the fastest -- is among some of the worst possible outcomes we could see. We seriously don't need one of the largest and fastest growing populations in the world joining the sort that actively believes the end of the world is coming and therefore fuck the future. That would quite possibly end up a self-fulfilling prophecy

Not saying China's powers that be are going about it in the right way, but...

Kinda' conflicted on the topic, I am.

They need to get everyone hooked on opium again; use it to fill the hole that people would otherwise try to fill with religion.

[TD1]

History does show us humans like to have a religion, be it Zeus or even exalted humans. It's just the way things are, I guess. We don't like unanswered questions, and so, be it Opium or Religion, we try to answer or ignore them.

[penguinofhonor]

They need to get everyone hooked on opium again; use it to fill the hole that people would otherwise try to fill with religion.

very subtle

[Graknorke]

... on one hand, oppression bad, etc., etc.

On the other hand, part of me can't help but think that a heavily christian influenced china -- especially of the sort that's apparently gaining traction there the fastest -- is among some of the worst possible outcomes we could see. We seriously don't need one of the largest and fastest growing populations in the world joining the sort that actively believes the end of the world is coming and therefore fuck the future. That would quite possibly end up a self-fulfilling prophecy

Not saying China's powers that be are going about it in the right way, but...

Kinda' conflicted on the topic, I am.

They need to get everyone hooked on opium again; use it to fill the hole that people would otherwise try to fill with religion.

I think you know what you have to do.

[Sheb]

Could someone explain the meaning of the parable in Luke, 19?