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No

Only Judeism

Only Islam

Yes to both Judeism and Islam

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

And is it wrong to say observation is the best proof

Give me observable evidence that God exists.

There is none and I hold nothing against anyone that doesn't believe it since there is no proof that he directly exists
It's called faith and I have it
I don't have faith in evolution
Say what you want, I truly don't care what you call me
Insult me on this and you know what will happen

[TD1]

No one is going to insult you...?

Anyway, instead of saying "I don't have faith that something evidenced in every single species on earth is real" you could say "God used evolution to cause every creature on earth."

This comes with the belief that the Garden of Eden is a story, but that's not too much of a stretch.

What I'm saying is there are evolutionary creationists. It all rests upon interpretation. Religion, whilst saying it is absolute, is quite the opposite.

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

I was just making sure

I have been insulted before for holding that belief


And as I said earlier I'm done with this topic as I've argued my side as much as I think I can at the moment



Also I applaud you all for having a discussion on abortion followed by evolution without flame war rising

[TD1]

That you can't think of a counter argument is fairly indicative, but sure. If you don't want to talk about it, just don't talk about it.

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

I can think of counter arguments
It's that I've done enough arguing against all of you by myself for the past couple hours!

Yes I would like a new topic
Hopefully one that nobody wants to badger me on

[miauw62]

You're just denying evidence at this point. If you can't accept any non-direct evidence, the Higgs boson does not exist (since it is the trail of the particle that is observed, not the particle itself), DESPITE THE EXISTANCE OF VARIOUS PROVEN THEORIES RELYING ON THE EXISTANCE OF SAID PARTICLE. You also don't seem to understand that evolution doesn't happen overnight and that a lot of life has evolved from now-extinct species.

This isn't even a debate, you may as well try to debate gravity.

[Graknorke]

But this is badgering thread 2014. It's pretty much all about probing Christians for their views.

[Neonivek]

But this is badgering thread 2014. It's pretty much all about probing Christians for their views.

Depends on what the page is.

I mean not EVERY page is about making fun of Christians for their non-secular beliefs that fly in the face of science as it is understood.

I mean please, people need a break between bashes.

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

You're just denying evidence at this point. If you can't accept any non-direct evidence, the Higgs boson does not exist (since it is the trail of the particle that is observed, not the particle itself), DESPITE THE EXISTANCE OF VARIOUS PROVEN THEORIES RELYING ON THE EXISTANCE OF SAID PARTICLE. You also don't seem to understand that evolution doesn't happen overnight and that a lot of life has evolved from now-extinct species.

This isn't even a debate, you may as well try to debate gravity.

Did this comment need to be made?
Sorry I don't believe it I guess

[Neonivek]

To admit science doesn't like to say things definitively exist unless they definitively exist.

A "Proven Theory" isn't exactly a theory now is it?

If you get a scientist, a competent one, with that guy with a bloody hammer... Even he won't say the guy "definitely" did it. That isn't science. There is a reason why there is a saying that "A credible scientist won't even tell you the color of their socks without looking at them first"

Yet of course that is why there is something called "Reasonable doubt" (MIND YOU how the heck the person got that bloody in 3 minutes with a hammer is beyond me... but whatever)

[Descan]

I'm pretty sure we haven't witnessed a single celled organism evolve and become multicellular

That list still is fundamentally not what evolution is about (s'not a ladder of progress, it's just adaptation to the environment. Speciation occurs when *something* stops two populations of animals from interbreeding between the two populations for long enough that when they're re-introduced again, they cannot breed and produce fertile offspring. After that, they diverge as different environmental factors, genetic drift, sexual selection, etc, "micro-evolutions" or mutations accumulate and they start to look and behave wildly differently) but for this one specifically...

Here: Yeast turning multicellular in 2 months.

[Graknorke]

Yet of course that is why there is something called "Reasonable doubt" (MIND YOU how the heck the person got that bloody in 3 minutes with a hammer is beyond me... but whatever)

Well yes, I never said it was absolutely certain. But in the absence of any evidence for an alternate explanation of events it would be odd to reject the idea that there was a murder.
Also the guy had strong arms. Really strong. Actually, I've decided he was a gorilla. Knew sign language or something to be able to talk.

Speaking of language, can we go back to the discussion on mistranslations? Someone mentioned having experience with it or a family member did or something, but the thread moved on before it got expanded on.

[scrdest]

Also, bacteria of various species forming biofilms, which are highly complex, interdependent structures, to the point where they become pretty much impenetrable to regular medicine - such as dental calculus.

And a fairly recent discovery of bacterial mechanism of quorum sensing - essentially, if you ingest, say, five Staph bacteria and they survive... they don't actually cause the same negative symptoms like a full-blown infection but on a small scale - instead, they can find out how many of them are hanging around by something similar to paracrine signalling and only once they reach the target population of X, it's time to Fuck Shit Up for you.

And re: DNA in generating new information, simple. There's a bunch of methods for that to happen, under the general umbrella of 'oops, forgot I inserted this already'. Essentially, a part of a gene's sequence is inserted twice, or the entire copying machine of DNA slips up when faced with, say, 10 repetitions of 'A' and inserts, say, 30 - the latter is in fact the general mechanism of Huntington's.

[MonkeyHead]

Having read the last few pages it has become apparent to me that the main reasons Christians reject evolution is that they are taught basically a bunch of horse excrement that bears little or no relevance to what evolutionary theory actually claims - presumably that someone has an interest in misrepresenting for some reason. Evolution is not a "belief". You agree with it as a theory that explains a whole bunch of observational evidence, or you reject it. There is no "faith" as far as observational evidence is concerned The trouble with rejecting it is that you then need to offer up a better theory to explain observations if you want your rejection to be taken seriously - and as yet, there is no better theory. Doing so for a faith based belief will attract challenges, for fairly obvious reasons. Rejecting it on a "feeling" is intellectually dishonest. Rejecting the evidence itself is totally intellectually dishonest - observation has no subjectivity, no agenda, no preclusion - it just IS.

Oh, and this is also fucking awesome - Slime moulds self assembling into complex multicellular structures based on environmental stimuli: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictyostelium_discoideum

[Neonivek]

There is no "faith" as far as observational evidence is concerned

So magicians ARE magic?