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Only Judeism

Only Islam

Yes to both Judeism and Islam

[Orange Wizard]

* Gnorm uses Wall of Text! It's super effective!

[Il Palazzo]

Did gnorm just said lying is fine as long as it makes people convert?(when "explaining" contradictions)

[TD1]

That is actually one of the teachings in Islam. That lying is one of the tools that should be used to spread the faith. [/slight derail]

As for the leviathan, it sounds so ridiculous it can't be true. Therefore, it must be a misinterpretation of a crocodile.

Funny how when Jesus does something so ridiculous as to walk on water, turn water to wine, etc. it MUST be true, because it is written in the Bible.

Why believe in water-wine and not water-beast?

[Phmcw]

May I remind everyone that Jesus's first miracle was to summon wine at a party because they drank all the wine they had?

The fact that american abolitionist pretend that the bible is against booze is slightly bafling to me.

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

Ya but I'm pretty sure wine back then wasn't really that alchoholic it was just fermented for ease of storage
Ya know, wine stores longer than grape juice
And it doesn't say that everyone at the party got drunk
Maybe too many people showed and they ran out of refreshments

Posting my not so baptist beleif on alchoholic beverages: I think it's ok to drink them just not to the point of intoxication

[Helgoland]

I believe specific reference is made to the practice of switching to lower-quality wine when people are sloshed enough to no longer be able to tell the difference...

[Phmcw]

John 2:1-11New International Version (NIV)
Jesus Changes Water Into Wine

2 On the third day a wedding took place at Cana in Galilee. Jesus’ mother was there, 2 and Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding. 3 When the wine was gone, Jesus’ mother said to him, “They have no more wine.”

4 “Woman,[a] why do you involve me?” Jesus replied. “My hour has not yet come.”

5 His mother said to the servants, “Do whatever he tells you.”

6 Nearby stood six stone water jars, the kind used by the Jews for ceremonial washing, each holding from twenty to thirty gallons.

7 Jesus said to the servants, “Fill the jars with water”; so they filled them to the brim.

8 Then he told them, “Now draw some out and take it to the master of the banquet.”

They did so, 9 and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew. Then he called the bridegroom aside 10 and said, “Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now.”

11 What Jesus did here in Cana of Galilee was the first of the signs through which he revealed his glory; and his disciples believed in him.

And old wine was not as strong a modern one, yet much stronger than your average beer. He also made about 100 liter of wine, which is a lot of wine.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

Apparently they live in the same town? That's kinda neat.

Or creepy.

We're friends from back when I was in High School.  I convinced him to play Dwarf Fortress, and, afterwards, join the Bay 12 Forums.

[freeformschooler]

Posting my not so baptist beleif on alchoholic beverages: I think it's ok to drink them just not to the point of intoxication

Why would you drink alcoholic beverages if not to intoxicate yourself? Let's get real, most alcoholic drinks are nasty. Even good wine takes a "refined palate."

[Orange Wizard]

I like the taste of wine... an I wouldn't exactly call my palate "refined".

[scrdest]

Posting my not so baptist beleif on alchoholic beverages: I think it's ok to drink them just not to the point of intoxication

Why would you drink alcoholic beverages if not to intoxicate yourself? Let's get real, most alcoholic drinks are nasty. Even good wine takes a "refined palate."

That's mostly because 'good wine' is defined by a bunch of one-man human centipedes.

Also, either you've clearly not have had a mixed drink ever, or you have that weird genetic thing that makes you hate the taste of ethanol. They taste different than the sum of the parts.

[TD1]

Eh, all alcohol tastes equally bad to me.

[Gnorm]

Did gnorm just said lying is fine as long as it makes people convert?(when "explaining" contradictions)

What I said was that the reason that there are four Gospels was to speak to a wider group of people, for the penguin asked why there wasn't one, large, comprehensive Gospel. To exemplify, I noted the magi in the Gospel According to Matthew and the shepherds in the Gospel According to Luke. I believe that most scholars agree that Matthew was written for a Jewish audience, and Luke for a Gentile audience, which would explain the difference; Gentiles paid no mind to magi, and Jews no mind to poor shepherds. I do not argue that these are "lies," but merely different parts of the story.

I was not explaining contradictions in the general sense. In fact, I invited any who had any contradictions in mind (Genesis through Revelation) to bring them to this thread. In my opinion, a Christian who does not think about these things and find answers is not a good Christian.

As for the leviathan, it sounds so ridiculous it can't be true. Therefore, it must be a misinterpretation of a crocodile.

Funny how when Jesus does something so ridiculous as to walk on water, turn water to wine, etc. it MUST be true, because it is written in the Bible.

Why believe in water-wine and not water-beast?

I see your point. Still, the Leviathan is in the Book of Job to show God's power. If it was a real creature, God demonstrates His power and Job's weakness. If it was a symbolic invention, it still demonstrates that Job would not be able to contend with God's power. Perhaps the extensive description of the Leviathan's might is to prove God's point.

As for Jesus, His miracles are mentioned a lot more extensively than the presence of the Leviathan is, and His teachings provide the basis for the Christian religion. Hence, people are more inclined to believe in Him than the Leviathan.

May I remind everyone that Jesus's first miracle was to summon wine at a party because they drank all the wine they had?

The fact that american abolitionist pretend that the bible is against booze is slightly bafling to me.

There's a certain amount of writing in the Bible that advises against drinking to inebriation. There's still plenty of alcohol referenced in the Bible, so I'd chalk up a good portion of the anti-drinking verses as advice, rather than a true commandment. Still, alcohol can and does endanger people and harms relationships with God, so I can see why some choose to follow the Bible's advice more closely.

Also, I don't think "abolitionist" is usually used to describe a prohibitionist or a temperance activist.

[Lord Shonus]

the Baptist ianterpretation insists on translating alll poistiver references to "wine" as "unfermented grape juice". Which in Bibical times was essentially POISON due to the ease in whcih grape juse breeds bacteria.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

the Baptist ianterpretation insists on translating alll poistiver references to "wine" as "unfermented grape juice". Which in Bibical times was essentially POISON due to the ease in whcih grape juse breeds bacteria.

I've heard that it meant 'water slightly fermented to kill bacteria'.