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[Rolan7]

Should have been life.

A wife who shoots a cheating husband to death can get 5 years with a plea deal. 22.5 years without a plea deal still seems above par for the criminal justice system, honestly.

Two things:
First off police officers have additional powers, and additional responsibilities, compared to a jilted wife.  We trust them to keep us safe, and even arm them for the unfortunate circumstances where they have to use lethal force.

Secondly, a murder of passion (which I assume is what you're talking about) is different from deliberately kneeling on a pleading man's neck for 8-9 minutes until he dies.

That's 8 minutes of meditation on the fact that he was strangling this person.  He knew what he was doing.  He probably didn't know Mr Floyd would die, but that's not a defense under the law.  He deliberately harmed God knows how many people in this same way, and in this case he committed extraordinarily meditated murder.

[delphonso]

Hate crime murders tend to be pretty long sentences - 20 to life with a recent case of some New England guy getting 49 years for a hate crime double homicide. 22.5 seems fair if anything.

Was he actually convicted of a hate crime?

I see "second-degree unintentional murder, third-degree murder, and second-degree manslaughter".

I mean - was he married to George Floyd? We're comparing types of murder. I think he has more in common with a hate crime murderer than an upset spouse.

[Bumber]

And yet it still wasn't a life sentence. So it's not enough.

As long as you're okay with handing out life sentences to all murderers regardless of race, gender, or profession.

[nenjin]

Oh I dunno. When people have a professional responsibility to enforce the law, and break it instead, I'd say that makes it even worse than an average joe citizen. There's a special circle of hell for people that abuse their authority.

[delphonso]

As long as you're okay with handing out life sentences to all murderers regardless of race, gender, or profession.

If I cut someone's appendix out, I get 12 years but someone with the right profession gets PAID? Are you kidding me? When will the prejudice end!?

I know the complexity of the law is overwhelming, but things like context are important. Murdering a physically abusive spouse is something we can empathize with. Physically abusing your spouse so hard that they die is a different thing. Both would likely be murder, but clearly don't need the same sentence.

Now my good faith is done:
I think all cops should be given life sentences for murder, that's the only way to be fair. Regardless of if that cop is gay, straight, white, brown, male, non-binary, or any part-time job they participate in while not on the clock as a cop. I'm glad we could agree on something, Bumber.

[Bumber]

Premeditated (planned in advance) murder is the one that generally gives life sentences, not murder that is decided in the heat of the moment.

Even concluding it was Chauvin's intent to kill Floyd, it wasn't going to happen unless Floyd exited the cop car, resulting in a resist of arrest and leading Chauvin to pin him. Not sure what the sentence is without a plea bargain if they could prove the intent, but it probably isn't life.

[Dunamisdeos]

Folks, a murder of passion isn't limited to I'm angry, bullet goes off, end scene. I think that's something that everyone here is aware of.

We have degrees of murder in order to cover the specific circumstances of the murder, not how (justifiably) angry it makes you or me. It's time to take a step back from the situation when we suggest that the court should have suspended the law in order to give someone a harsher sentence because he had a responsibility to uphold the law and protect the citizens thereof.

He should get EXACTLY the sentence prescribed by the letter of the law, and nothing else. If anything is going to be different, it should be exemption from things like parole or early release. It's not about it being worse than a "regular" murder. Remember, the crux of the matter is not that Chauvin was a cop who murdered a person, it's that he fully expected to have no legal consequences despite having dozens of witnesses in broad daylight, and that it was completely reasonable of him to believe that. The point is to prove that a police officer MUST be and WILL be held to the same standards as a regular citizen, and that has been done.

If we campaign for a harsher sentence based solely on the basis that he is a police officer, we will be reinforcing the us vs. them mentality in the long run.

[nenjin]

They have the means and authority to commit crimes in a way that the average citizen cannot.

What's worse?

A random guy who meets a girl at a bar and brings them back to their car then rapes them.....

Or a police officer who uses the power of their office to put someone in the back of their car, whether or not they want to be there, then rapes them.

In this day and age, people with authority who abuse that authority need stricter punishment, period. We are far, far too lenient on politicians, elected officials and police for the shit they do, and creating crimes specifically for violating their oaths isn't "us vs. them." It's "you violate your oaths, you get violated in turn."

Remember, cops routinely getting prosecuted for their wrong doings is a recent affair.

[None]

I gotta throw it in with Duna on this one- I'm not sure I want the law affecting one group of people or trade disproportionately more than another- well, any worse than it does already. Now, you could probably make exception here with the military, but they already have additional laws to manage them. You could maybe make argument that we need law to hold police to higher legal standards, and there'd be room for discussion there, but as it doesn't exist now, he'll get the punishment exactly as current law dictates, which yeah, is progress when it was expected he'd have no consequences whatsoever.

[Iduno]

Folks, a murder of passion isn't limited to I'm angry, bullet goes off, end scene. I think that's something that everyone here is aware of.

We have degrees of murder in order to cover the specific circumstances of the murder, not how (justifiably) angry it makes you or me. It's time to take a step back from the situation when we suggest that the court should have suspended the law in order to give someone a harsher sentence because he had a responsibility to uphold the law and protect the citizens thereof.

He should get EXACTLY the sentence prescribed by the letter of the law, and nothing else. If anything is going to be different, it should be exemption from things like parole or early release. It's not about it being worse than a "regular" murder. Remember, the crux of the matter is not that Chauvin was a cop who murdered a person, it's that he fully expected to have no legal consequences despite having dozens of witnesses in broad daylight, and that it was completely reasonable of him to believe that. The point is to prove that a police officer MUST be and WILL be held to the same standards as a regular citizen, and that has been done.

If we campaign for a harsher sentence based solely on the basis that he is a police officer, we will be reinforcing the us vs. them mentality in the long run.

At least make it equal between law enforcement and citizens. And remove all of the legal barriers to investigating police when they do commit crimes, especially when they're committing them to cover up other crimes.

[SOLDIER First]

"Holding cops to higher standards when they commit murder instead of ignoring the context in which the murder has been committed (which is something that we never do, all murderers receive the same sentence regardless of context) is bad because it will make cops abuse their power more"

[Dunamisdeos]

"Holding cops to higher standards when they commit murder instead of ignoring the context in which the murder has been committed (which is something that we never do, all murderers receive the same sentence regardless of context) is bad because it will make cops abuse their power more"

Y E S. The entire mindset behind the ultraviolent military cop training is that everyone is out to get them, and they need to get us first, and that they need special immunity to do it. They would absolutely twist that into justification.

They have the means and authority to commit crimes in a way that the average citizen cannot.

What's worse?

A random guy who meets a girl at a bar and brings them back to their car then rapes them.....

Or a police officer who uses the power of their office to put someone in the back of their car, whether or not they want to be there, then rapes them.

I feel like both of those are just as bad in their own way, but to address the point in good faith: what Chauvin did is absolutely worse than some rando killing another person in broad daylight with witnesses, because you should be able to implicitly trust the cops on the street. It is especially vicious. But this case is still not about that!

The point is still to hold police to the same standard as everyone else, because the thing to reinforce is that they are NOT different from everyone else, ergo they are NOT a de facto upper caste of society immune to criticism. The police need to be citizens entrusted with the safety of the public in truth, not a paramilitary force subject to different rules and laws as the rest of us. The only way to create equity there is to... well, treat them equitably. Otherwise we're headed for another de facto legal caste system one way or another.

[SOLDIER First]

Police officers abusing their power to commit murder is not the fault of the general public, nor the fault of anyone the police decide to murder. It is not our responsibility to avoid hurting the poor piggies' fee-fees so they don't do an oopsie-woopsie and deliver twelve warning shots to the back of an unarmed, retreating citizen. There is a very simple solution for pigs who don't want to get harsher prison sentences for murder... but I can't remember what it is. Anyone know?

[delphonso]

Is it...commit more murder?

[feelotraveller]

Oh, I thought it was to make sure to confiscate all the cameras...

But I guess citizens could just do the same???