Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Dwarf_Fever]

Hah.  Hahah.  Hahahahaahahahhahahahahah

Care to expand on your plans from that zero-IQ response? What "positive change" would you propose, that police would actually stop you from pursuing right now?

[Frumple]

Without [an oppressive police force] the population would have the ability to band together and force positive change

Nothing is stopping you from doing that now.

Literally cops are, though. Law enforcement targeting and harassing(/assaulting/murdering/etc.) people trying to push through positive change is, like. Constant and very much historied in the US at a minimum.

I mean, fuck, right now, these last few weeks, has seen cops brutalizing, tear gassing, running over, and a few times noted just outright killing people trying to band together and force positive change, all over the bloody country.

And ninja'd somewhat by SG, but seriously, if you think there isn't serious opposition to anything that looks like it might successfully band together and force positive change you have not been paying attention to the US for the last, like... ever.

[Dwarf_Fever]

And ninja'd somewhat by SG, but seriously, if you think there isn't serious opposition to anything that looks like it might successfully band together and force positive change you have not been paying attention to the US for the last, like... ever.

OH. You guys think smashing storefronts and burning down buildings is in itself a positive change, and we need more of that. I see. Good thinking. No idea how I missed that.

[TD1]

"People trying to force positive change."
Yes. Law enforcement enforces the laws.
Rioters and vandals break the laws.

Edit: Got ninjad.

[Max™]

The smashed storefronts and burned buildings are as likely to be agent provocateurs as actual protestors, noted by the lack of rioting and burning in the vast majority of protests.

You say all cops aren't bastards, well all protests aren't riots, APAR!

The US will *NEVER* treat mental illness as something *OTHER* than what can be treated with a pill and forgotten about, because anything else "Hurts the bottom line!"

Yeah, besides the glorification of violence and proliferation of guns, this is another huge "root cause" - the US is, at heart, plutocratric.

The degree to which the police prioritize protecting money/the wealthy in the US is mostly relative to the amount of undue influence and power the US system affords the privileged.

No matter what you do to the police, you won't make the problem go away until you address this. But you might make the problem worse.

This is bizarre, you bring up the organized crime bogeyman against removing police, when it is actually an argument put forth by pro-police forces to discourage people seriously considering their removal, and you point out the nature of american plutocracy which is kept in place in large part by police keeping the masses from pitchforking rich folk but act like we could somehow level out the playing field before fixing the police state when the police state exists explicitly to prevent us from leveling out the playing field?

[Frumple]

And ninja'd somewhat by SG, but seriously, if you think there isn't serious opposition to anything that looks like it might successfully band together and force positive change you have not been paying attention to the US for the last, like... ever.

OH. You guys think smashing storefronts and burning down buildings is in itself a positive change, and we need more of that. I see. Good thinking. No idea how I missed that.

shit that pretty much entirely hasn't started until after the cops started assaulting protestors, yes, thank you

Places that hasn't had cops assaulting peaceful protesters has seen little to none of that. You missed somethin', alright.

[TD1]

Are you... advocating for the pitchfirking?

Because frankly you're ome step away from Baelishing us here.

[SalmonGod]

And ninja'd somewhat by SG, but seriously, if you think there isn't serious opposition to anything that looks like it might successfully band together and force positive change you have not been paying attention to the US for the last, like... ever.

OH. You guys think smashing storefronts and burning down buildings is in itself a positive change, and we need more of that. I see. Good thinking. No idea how I missed that.

The riots are happening because peaceful protest has been done to death, and the police brutalize them all the same.  Occupy was overwhelmingly peaceful.  I paid really close attention to that phenomena and there was almost no smashing of windows and zero arson anywhere across the country, with hundreds of thousands of participants.  But it was shut down by an overwhelming show of force all the same.  Or how about Standing Rock?  Even worse - and there was zero violence by protesters -- ZERO.  Riot police have been beating the shit out of, and even murdering, peaceful protesters for all of U.S. history.  Which is exactly why historically any good social change we've ever accomplished has involved rioting - gay rights, women's right's, black rights, labor rights -- all of them involved peaceful protest getting brutalized for decades before people got fed up and decided to riot because why the fuck not?

Nothing is stopping you from doing that now. Unless by "band together and force positive change" you mean forming an organized crime syndicate and taking the use of force into your own hands.

Sorry if it sounds insulting but there's nothing for it.  A statement like this is so incredibly ignorant of U.S. history and even current events that the only response it really deserves is laughing at.  Go browse Wikipedia for 5 minutes and be inundated with countless easily found counter-examples to this piece of your world view.

[hector13]

Protests have been going on for nearly a month; if they were all rioters and looters, there would be nothing left.

[Max™]

Let us not forget what happens when peaceful protestors are left alone entirely: you discover the opposite of a riot is a dance party.

[Dwarf_Fever]

The smashed storefronts and burned buildings are as likely to be agent provocateurs as actual protestors, noted by the lack of rioting and burning in the vast majority of protests.

Straight up conspiracy theory. You just want to blame cops for everything bad. "It was a guy in a t-shirt! That's what cops (undercover) wear! Don't you see???" No, dude, it was a guy in a t-shirt. If anything, there was political motivation, not motivation from being a cop. Look to militias or Trumpists - maybe. You'll have to show some evidence to back up that, until then it's nonsense.

This is bizarre, you bring up the organized crime bogeyman against removing police, when it is actually an argument put forth by pro-police forces to discourage people seriously considering their removal

And here you reveal your motivation to dismiss anything based on its source without considering the merits, aka the genetic fallacy. Yes, pro-police forces put this argument forth, and it also happens to be a good and correct argument, which we can easily corroborate by looking at nations in history where centralized policing failed. This is not a defense of police, it is saying that they are, in this case, making a point to consider. If you have historical evidence to the contrary, we could discuss it, but it will be heavily outweighed from the start.

and you point out the nature of american plutocracy which is kept in place in large part by police keeping the masses from pitchforking rich folk but act like we could somehow level out the playing field before fixing the police state when the police state exists explicitly to prevent us from leveling out the playing field?

The police are just the hired help my man. I'm on your side, but you're thinking small. You don't fix a bad mayor by punching out the garbage man, unless you plan to go through the entire house wrecking everything in your way until you get to him. The fish stinks from the head, as they say.

[wierd]

A conspiracy theory you say?

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/us-officials-investigate-protest-disinformation-possible-agents-provocateur-2020-05-31

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carlieporterfield/2020/05/30/who-is-umbrella-man-mystery-vandal-at-minneapolis-riot-spurs-conspiracies/#4ecba6b236e1
(Note, the protestors STOPPED this man!!)

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/31/us/george-floyd-protests-white-supremacists-antifa.html

[MetalSlimeHunt]

imagine calling one of the oldest disinformation and suppression tactics in history a conspiracy theory

[Loud Whispers]

Are you... advocating for the pitchfirking?

Because frankly you're ome step away from Baelishing us here.

m8 chaosh is a ladda

[Dwarf_Fever]

Imagine not being able to tell the difference between white supremacy groups and police. Granted, I can sort of understand your confusion, but yeah. Still not the same thing.