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[Kagus]

Y'all seen this thing yet?

https://twitter.com/tkerssen/status/1266921821653385225

National guard and MPD firing paint canisters at people on their own porch.

[martinuzz]

This shouldn't escalate much further or you'll have a full blown civil war..

[scriver]

Y'all seen this thing yet?

https://twitter.com/tkerssen/status/1266921821653385225

National guard and MPD firing paint canisters at people on their own porch.

Absolutely disgusting. Can't stand on your own fucking porch with phone now? No my-home-is-my-castle for these folks I guess.

Edit: are they using paint to mark people or is that standard now? I sometimes see tear gas being coloured but that's not the same, right?

[Iduno]

As a coincidence, the military firing at civilians who try to be outside is right above the post of them raiding medic stations. I only came here to post the second one.

https://twitter.com/chadloder/status/1266957030285127687


Edit: I haven't watched this one, because I'm just short of a panic attack already. Enjoy? https://twitter.com/KCJ_Swish/status/1266913464234237954

[Yoink]

Y'all seen this thing yet?

https://twitter.com/tkerssen/status/1266921821653385225

National guard and MPD firing paint canisters at people on their own porch.

Absolutely disgusting. Can't stand on your own fucking porch with phone now? No my-home-is-my-castle for these folks I guess.

Normally I would agree, but isn't there a literal, city-wide curfew in that area, currently? That they were presumably breaking?   

Also the car-door thing seems to be getting blown a bit out of proportion, unless I watched the wrong video - definitely a possibility, since it's a Twitter video and that site is a huge pain in the keister.   

[Doomblade187]

Y'all seen this thing yet?

https://twitter.com/tkerssen/status/1266921821653385225

National guard and MPD firing paint canisters at people on their own porch.

Absolutely disgusting. Can't stand on your own fucking porch with phone now? No my-home-is-my-castle for these folks I guess.

Normally I would agree, but isn't there a literal, city-wide curfew in that area, currently? That they were presumably breaking?   

Also the car-door thing seems to be getting blown a bit out of proportion, unless I watched the wrong video - definitely a possibility, since it's a Twitter video and that site is a huge pain in the keister.   

Lots of people been hit by cars during these protests. It's not a good look at all.

[Iduno]

Y'all seen this thing yet?

https://twitter.com/tkerssen/status/1266921821653385225

National guard and MPD firing paint canisters at people on their own porch.

Absolutely disgusting. Can't stand on your own fucking porch with phone now? No my-home-is-my-castle for these folks I guess.

Normally I would agree, but isn't there a literal, city-wide curfew in that area, currently? That they were presumably breaking?   

Also the car-door thing seems to be getting blown a bit out of proportion, unless I watched the wrong video - definitely a possibility, since it's a Twitter video and that site is a huge pain in the keister.   

Depends on how the law is written? Is your deck/porch part of your house? Also, I'm pretty sure that going outside for fresh air on your own property isn't grounds for being shot at.

Y'all seen this thing yet?

https://twitter.com/tkerssen/status/1266921821653385225

National guard and MPD firing paint canisters at people on their own porch.

Absolutely disgusting. Can't stand on your own fucking porch with phone now? No my-home-is-my-castle for these folks I guess.

Normally I would agree, but isn't there a literal, city-wide curfew in that area, currently? That they were presumably breaking?   

Also the car-door thing seems to be getting blown a bit out of proportion, unless I watched the wrong video - definitely a possibility, since it's a Twitter video and that site is a huge pain in the keister.   

Lots of people been hit by cars during these protests. It's not a good look at all.

I've had cops try to hit (rev engine, speed up, aim for me, hit the curb) me just because they don't like crosswalks. I can imagine those assholes are hitting people a lot now.

[McTraveller]

What's the de-escalation plan for the protesters?  Have they even indicated the things that would make them stop protesting / rioting?

I mean something practical, not just "we want justice!"  What do they want other than just having the perpetrators put in jail?  If that won't appease them, what will?  I don't think a public execution is a realistic demand, even though I'm sure that what some people want.

[Doomblade187]

What's the de-escalation plan for the protesters?  Have they even indicated the things that would make them stop protesting / rioting?

I mean something practical, not just "we want justice!"  What do they want other than just having the perpetrators put in jail?  If that won't appease them, what will?  I don't think a public execution is a realistic demand, even though I'm sure that what some people want.

There's notably less violence in cities where the cops don't obstruct the peaceful protesters, and give statements condemning George Floyd's killing.

There's also notably less violence when the cops don't start it.
https://www.theroot.com/police-prove-point-of-protests-by-instigating-violence-1843797562

[Frumple]

What's the de-escalation plan for the protesters?  Have they even indicated the things that would make them stop protesting / rioting?

I mean something practical, not just "we want justice!"  What do they want other than just having the perpetrators put in jail?  If that won't appease them, what will?  I don't think a public execution is a realistic demand, even though I'm sure that what some people want.

Well, if the police would stop brutalizing and murdering people it'd probably be a good start. So the tear gas, pepper spray, rubber bullets, and vehicular assault stopping would be a good starting point. Could work on proper prosecution for the murderer and his accomplices that kicked this latest batch of protests off, too, maybe -- that seems to be the major call for Minneapolis in particular, they don't just want the direct murderer they want the fuckers who sat there and helped him, too. Then cleaning up police in general, really. Disbanding precincts that have problems (which might be all of them I'unno :V) and replacing them wholesale might be a good step 1.

Really, if you want to appease the protesters shit is pretty damn straightforward. Put the boot to the jackboot thugs in uniform terrorizing communities and maiming/murdering people with near impunity, get economic relief for areas in serious trouble. None of this had to happen, and if you remove or mitigate the underlying causes (shit lives, bastard cops making them worse) it can stop. If you're more interested in brutalizing and maiming protesters, well, it can keep going I guess.

[McTraveller]

Dammit I'm trying to be practical. I know there is a chicken-and-egg problem.  We also need a way to address the immediate issue of escalating violence, not pontificate about the cultural changes that will take a generation to put in place to fix the systematic issues.

Right now we have police being violent leading to protests leading to police being violent leading to protests leading to... someone has to give.  I guess it would be better if the police chiefs would get their asses in gear and just tell their forces to withdraw, and sit down and have a dialog. But if they don't - are the protesters civil enough to take the step to withdraw, then ask for a more formal discussion?  I mean hell if you have 1000 protesters surely they can spare $10 each to pool together and hire a lawyer.

I really don't know - but just claiming "this could have been stopped" is not helpful, no matter how true. That boat has sailed, we can't put the water back in the dam.  We have to find a path forward, not lament about what is past or just scream about how there are assholes in every job, including the police.

[SalmonGod]

Person A assaults Person B.  Person B initially takes the assault peacefully without responding.  Only pleading for it to stop, and appealing to bystanders, who do nothing.
Eventually, Person B starts hitting back to defend themselves.  So Person A responds by continuing their assault even more aggressively.

Does it even make sense to think that Person B has the ability to de-escalate the situation?  De-escalation is what they wanted in the first place.  If the situation was based on their choices, de-escalation is what would be happening.

Person B can be defend themselves more or less effectively.  They can be educated on how to employ the minimum level of force necessary to survive the assault.  They can have polished speaking skills to maximize the chance that their verbal pleas will appeal to some better nature in Person A or bystanders.  They can be tough and capable of withstanding a lot.  They can be diligent about maintaining presence of mind despite the pain, fear, and adrenaline so that they recognize the moment it's safe to stop fighting.  These shouldn't be expectations, but they can be qualities and efforts worthy of praise.

But when it will be possible for Person B to cease defending themselves in order to survive is 100% on Person A.

[Frumple]

I mean, if it's too much to ask for cops to stop shooting people in the face with rubber bullets as a prerequisite for the protests to stop, I guess they can just keep going until that stops being too much of an ask. If it's too much for a murderer and their accomplices to be cuffed, then I guess it keeps going until it stops being too much. Doesn't seem to be much else in the way of options, really, unless getting brutalized for peaceful protest and murder/assisting murder getting shoved under a rug is what you want the future to continue to be.

Dialog's going to have a hard time starting until the response to attempts at dialog stops being chemical attacks and assault, though. Oddly enough, some people seem to have figured that one out, and shit tends to be a lot tamer in those areas.

[Iduno]

Dammit I'm trying to be practical.

You're trying to be practical without accepting simple practical solutions. Punish the murderer and the people who have let him get away with it for so long, and all of the murderers who have been killing people since (at least 4 since protests began, in addition to other assaults, etc.). That solves the short-term problem.

Then worry about the long-term solutions to corrupt autocrats hiring death squads to thin out the populace, especially poor and colored civilians, then doubling down on it and ignoring people's rights to protest by infiltrating protestors to instigate.

[McTraveller]

You're trying to be practical without accepting simple practical solutions. Punish the murderer and the people who have let him get away with it for so long, and all of the murderers who have been killing people since (at least 4 since protests began, in addition to other assaults, etc.).

By practical I mean, "punish how"?  Just saying "punish" doesn't mean anything.  Who is going to punish them? What does the punishment look like?

This is what I mean by "practical".

I suppose I could offer this as a one possibility, but it has some potential nasty side effects: send in the National Guard, not to augment the police, but to protect the protesters.