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[nenjin]

And once again you look at body count, but completely ignore the possibility that most of those deaths were not the police's fault and would be the same were any other armed police around the world to deal with them. Your activists lament the death of specific people who actively resisted arrest and tried to pull guns on police. These sorts of shitheads would be dead in most other parts of the world for doing that. Thus it is my opinion that it is your culture of violently resisting police that leads to these numbers, and you're crying wolf and seeking blame in everyone but yourselves.

And you're minimizing and downplaying the exact examples that disagree with you, including the two JUST this last few weeks, or historically like Abner Louima, where people did fuck all to deserve the way they were treated or whether or not they survived. So now what?

And second, there's no such thing as 100% effective training of a human being and there never will be. It's also impossible to vet who gets hired with full effectiveness, because you can never be certain what's kicking around in someone's head (or what will be after they get assaulted, or they watch the nth mangled car wreck victim that month). Human error happens, and no amount of training can prepare you for sudden dangerous situations that happen like once or twice in your lifetime.

And instead of firing these people as a matter of course, they defend them, excuse them, don't prosecute them and close ranks to protect them instead of making an example of them. You can't guarantee human behavior 100%. But you can dictate the consequences for human behavior 100% of the time, which the police do not.

or are you just unhappy that antifa throwing rocks and bottles is pretty unimpressive to an APC?

Maybe, just maybe, we don't want our cities and streets looking like a warzone because police in full riot gear are afraid of some fucking rocks and bottles. Maybe the police are unhappy that stupid little shits like Antifa do these things and want to scare 'em real good, while scaring the fuck out of the rest of law abiding citizens at the same time.

[scourge728]

The police have helmets, do they not?
EDIT: I don't know what you consider sizeable, but as a lad I was hit in the cheek with a thrown rock about the size of lad!me's cheek, it hurt, it hurt quite a lot, but I didn't go get riot gear and beat to death the person who threw it, now did I?

[nenjin]

No one likes being attacked, whether they're wearing armor or not. However, beyond that, it takes a degree of self-control to realize you'll get it a hell of a lot less worse than the guy not wearing any armor and act accordingly.

Especially when your job description is "protect and serve" not "fucking rip and tear."

[scourge728]

And it takes possessing critical thinking skills to understand that the appropriate response to rocks being thrown at you is NOT to go obtain war machines

[Doomblade187]

@Virtz, the recent example with the police Chief is an outlier, by far, and I don't want you to think I'm referring to that. It's actually so much an outlier that people are concerned he's just playing along, though I'm not as concerned.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

It sure is crazy how police really hate antifascists more than anybody else. I wonder if we could draw some sort of conclusion from this?

[wierd]

Antifascists are, well antifascist.

Or-- in other words, they are against petty use of law enforcement power, and are vocal about this.

See also, how people who are against cops, are supporting criminals, if not being criminals themselves. (I don't mean this as a literal truth; I mean this as how a toxic-worldview cop perceives it.)


Naturally, police that have developed the toxic worldview will see Antifa people as shamelessly anti-law-enforcement. (the conception that you can have law enforcement without fascist powerplay activities never dawns on them, and if mentioned outright, is dismissed by them as naivete.)


Again, I refer you back to Zimbardo's experiment, and how it turned seemingly ordinary college kids into monsters in very short order. The way we demand things from a police force, without seeing to these psychological consequences, is very much just repeating the experiment with slightly different parameters.  Expecting anything OTHER than police becoming petty thugs and bruisers is not rational.  You could put St. Francis in that position, and HE would have become a petty thug and an abuser.

I am not wanting to play the apologetics game here, just pointing out that "HEY, YOU ARE BAD MAN FOR ABUSING POWER! (No, I won't consider that my own actions in politics is at least partially responsible for your downfall.)" is not helpful.

"Oh, I see you have become a monster-- Let's see if we can figure out why, and address those shortcomings." however, IS.  Just expect the person being discussed to assert, quite vocally I might add, that they are not a monster and that there is nothing wrong with them.  (From their perspective, the world really has gone mad, and they are the last sane one left.)

[Virtz]

And once again you look at body count, but completely ignore the possibility that most of those deaths were not the police's fault and would be the same were any other armed police around the world to deal with them. Your activists lament the death of specific people who actively resisted arrest and tried to pull guns on police. These sorts of shitheads would be dead in most other parts of the world for doing that. Thus it is my opinion that it is your culture of violently resisting police that leads to these numbers, and you're crying wolf and seeking blame in everyone but yourselves.

And you're minimizing and downplaying the exact examples that disagree with you, including the two JUST this last few weeks, or historically like Abner Louima, where people did fuck all to deserve the way they were treated or whether or not they survived. So now what?

What's the second one from the last few weeks? I've only heard of the Fort Worth one.

And it's good to protest cases like Louima, but that was 20 years ago and not all protests these days are this clear-cut. Activists protest over people like Ronald Davis, De'Von Bailey, Charles Landeros or Alton Sterling. Sometimes they stop after evidence surfaces, but often they double down and continue to claim racism and propagate distrust towards police.

And second, there's no such thing as 100% effective training of a human being and there never will be. It's also impossible to vet who gets hired with full effectiveness, because you can never be certain what's kicking around in someone's head (or what will be after they get assaulted, or they watch the nth mangled car wreck victim that month). Human error happens, and no amount of training can prepare you for sudden dangerous situations that happen like once or twice in your lifetime.

And instead of firing these people as a matter of course, they defend them, excuse them, don't prosecute them and close ranks to protect them instead of making an example of them. You can't guarantee human behavior 100%. But you can dictate the consequences for human behavior 100% of the time, which the police do not.

Maybe it's because police are used to the public making over-emotional demands over situations that were actually handled properly, and start by assuming it's another of those cases again? When you've got people calling for blood over some street thug getting shot as he was pulling his gun out (or making the appropriate motions as such), you start jumping to conclusions as well. Not to mention no one else will take a moment to consider the stresses police work involves, the split-second decisions cops need to make, and how unintentional errors can happen.

If one of your co-workers suddenly got accused of something really serious, by a crowd of people who have baselessly accused you and your co-workers before, wouldn't you be reluctant to believe them?

or are you just unhappy that antifa throwing rocks and bottles is pretty unimpressive to an APC?

Maybe, just maybe, we don't want our cities and streets looking like a warzone because police in full riot gear are afraid of some fucking rocks and bottles. Maybe the police are unhappy that stupid little shits like Antifa do these things and want to scare 'em real good, while scaring the fuck out of the rest of law abiding citizens at the same time.

I don't know if you've ever looked at how policing protests works, but generally it's a lot of standing around while rocks continue to fly at you. You do not want to be in a passive position without the superior gear to tank it. Whenever police actually instantly respond and get to weeding out violent protestors, the manbaby part of the public starts crying "muh rights!".

And I don't know if you read the old testament at any point, but stoning someone to death is a thing that pops up. Bible people must've been really dumb to try and kill people with some rocks, right?

It sure is crazy how police really hate antifascists more than anybody else. I wonder if we could draw some sort of conclusion from this?

It might have something to do with their "peaceful" protests involving thousands of dollars in property damage, committing assaults against poorly identified "nazis" and THROWING FUCKING ROCKS AT POLICE. This isn't being antifascist, this is being spoiled self-righteous little douchebags. Whatever their stated purpose is, they're sure acting like shithead anarchists instead.

And the funny thing is, where I live, this is the sort of shit asshole right-wingers and football hooligans did when fighting police in the past (obviously with the assault targets being different). The lack of self-awareness is staggering.

[SOLDIER First]

"Anti-antifa" is another way of saying "pro-fascist".

[ggamer]

This thread could probably go without the usual accusations of false flags that get thrown around when people bring that up, no matter how true it is.

The brick in window thing tends to be a result of resentment towards overzealous policing. In Athens, there was a ~500 person protest when trump entered office, and the worst thing that happened was a sign burning in the street.

I'm pretty sure police forces haven't had to deal with underfunding as much as misallocation. They could afford to hire more police officers and spread around the workload if they weren't buying dodge chargers and APCs like fucking crazy, among about a trillion other things.

Also, you don't need an APC for riot dispersal. That is, in a word, moronic. You need enough people who look like they won't be fucked with to deter the people who want to fuck with someone. You'll recall riots have been around since Grog was made Chief over Thog, and they sure didn't have fucking tanks back then.

If you think overwhelming military force is all you need to stop a riot, then you should look in the mirror to make sure you're not the reanimated rotting corpse of margaret thatcher (reanimated by that babylonian sorceror that's got Trump on the hook, probably). Very famously, her unwillingness to fix the problem and instead view it as a law and order issue turned some trouble with those irish folks into The Troubles.

Edit: oh man and that had a root cause in racial bias against an ethnic group who would have fucking thought wow

[DG]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/oct/25/police-shooting-video-isiah-murrietta-golding-fresno-california

The footage shows the teenager running from officers, jumping a fence, falling to the ground and continuing to flee. Murrietta-Golding was an estimated 35 feet away from the officers when one of them fired a single bullet into his head. The officer then hopped the fence, approached the boy’s limp body and handcuffed his hands behind his back.

[thompson]

To be honest, I think the root cause of repressive policing has the same root cause of many problems in America. People have a culture not just of entitlement, but also "righteousness". For some reason, people always need to be right. I've just come off a flight where an American lady was abusing airline staff and demanding the flight stop prematurely because a flight attendant told her she had to deflate her inflatable cushion as having them on board was a safely hazard and violated airline policy. I enjoyed a several hour long tirade about who she was going to sue because she couldn't use her cusion. It was insane.

People have this warped idea that they can do no wrong, that everything they do is right by definition. If you have a group of angry protesters facing off against a group of angry police and both sides are absolutely convinced of their righteousness it will never end well.

People just need to be more comfortable with the idea of their own personal fallibility.

[Naturegirl1999]

Not all Americans are like this, I am one of the ones who understands that I can be wrong.

[thompson]

Not all Americans are like this, I am one of the ones who understands that I can be wrong.

Don't worry. I gave a very, very extreme example. I just came back from California and most people there were lovely.

[SOLDIER First]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/oct/25/police-shooting-video-isiah-murrietta-golding-fresno-california

The footage shows the teenager running from officers, jumping a fence, falling to the ground and continuing to flee. Murrietta-Golding was an estimated 35 feet away from the officers when one of them fired a single bullet into his head. The officer then hopped the fence, approached the boy’s limp body and handcuffed his hands behind his back.

Hey, everyone knows that unarmed, fleeing sixteen-year-olds are the most dangerous criminals around. If one of them gets away, a police officer might face consequences for their actions.