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[Bohandas]

You know, have any countries gone through something like a hard crash which rearranges their political system? I know theres Russia, but not that disastrous. I don't think the US has gone through anything like that politically, within living memory anyway.

Germany. We're the prime example for the phoenix-like rebirth of a civilized society.

A friend of mine likes to argue that the US has so many political problems because it has never lost a war, and thus never was forced to adopt radical changes. Remember, Prussia only became a modern state after being beaten into a pulp and then occupied by Napoleon - and sixty years later, it was mopping the floor with some of the most powerful states in Europe.

We have lost wars, Vietnam in particular, but it's more that we've never lost one which ended up with an occupying army and our homeland trashed.

I'd go as far as to say that these days it seems like we do nothing but lose wars. Not that it matters though since it's been well over half a century since we've had a war where's mattered at all whether we won or lost.

[SalmonGod]

Going to echo the sentiment that shit needs to hit the fan and fall to pieces one way or another before anything will get better.  I don't think it has to be losing a war on home turf.  But it needs to be something that feels catastrophic and effects everybody.

I've had the sense for many years that America just became mentally ill after WW2.  The "Greatest Generation" that fought the war went on to create a political atmosphere that was obsessed with control and global military/economic dominance.  Then they spawned the baby boomers, who can really just be characterized as obnoxious spoiled reactionary brats.  If the Greatest are the people who turned America into the world police, then the boomers are your stereotypical cop's kid.

We've been spoiled and deluded by a long period of superpower status and material affluence, and the origin and nature of that status has been whitewashed by authorities for decades, while everyone else has been making honest efforts to mature.

[smeeprocket]

I think, maybe (hopefully) we will see more progress when the baby boomers... leave us.

They are a blight. (no offense to my parents and in-laws)

But then again, I regularly get into fights on facebook on heavily liberal pages because liberals are just as sexist as conservatives, they just sometimes support choice.

[Helgoland]

Europe... doesn't have juries? I thought only South Africa did that.

QED, my dear

Do you realize his knowledge of European systems was only relevant in your own head? It was the American system that was being discussed.

It was the merits of juries - knowing about systems without them is kinda vital for that.

[smeeprocket]

Europe... doesn't have juries? I thought only South Africa did that.

QED, my dear

Do you realize his knowledge of European systems was only relevant in your own head? It was the American system that was being discussed.

It was the merits of juries - knowing about systems without them is kinda vital for that.

I literally thought that was a South African phenomenon.

[nenjin]

Maybe finite terms for judges would be a good thing.

What do you think results in less malfeasance and corruption?

-A judge who knows exactly when they're done?

or

-A judge who can potentially stay on the bench until they die?

or

-A judge who can stay as long as no one else gets appointed?

or

-Byzantine Belgian Judgery?

But it needs to be something that feels catastrophic and effects everybody.

9/11 should have been our wake up call. But it seems to only have deepened our national political and social neuroses.

They are a blight. (no offense to my parents and in-laws)

My dad, who has always been heavily left-leaning, has basically already stepped out of society. In his words, if the apocalypse came, him and his wife were just going to kill themselves.

Cheerful guy, my dad.

GODDAMN NINJAS

[Helgoland]

I literally thought that was a South African phenomenon.

Don't sweat it - it's not a bad mistake, after all. I just don't like letting scriver pick on me.

[smeeprocket]

Maybe finite terms for judges would be a good thing.

What do you think results in less malfeasance and corruption?

-A judge who knows exactly when they're done?

or

-A judge who can potentially stay on the bench until they die?

or

-A judge who can stay as long as no one else gets appointed?

or

-Byzantine Belgian Judgery?

But it needs to be something that feels catastrophic and effects everybody.

9/11 should have been our wake up call. But it seems to only have deepened our national political and social neuroses.

They are a blight. (no offense to my parents and in-laws)

My dad, who has always been heavily left-leaning, has basically already stepped out of society. In his words, if the apocalypse came, him and his wife were just going to kill themselves.

Cheerful guy, my dad.

GODDAMN NINJAS

when 9/11 hit, and I watched the towers falling, my first thought was "shit, people are going to go insane." And that is what happened. It was bad for arabs. Really bad. The govt used it to justify so many awful things, and people were all for it.

I was out protesting the Iraq war at one point. We had people pretending like they were going to run us over and trying to start fights.

Americans don't really think except with their gut. They are incredibly reactionary and pro-violence. Iraq was completely unnecessary, and Afghanistan served no purpose. I was just incredibly scared and ashamed of my country for a long time.

[Bohandas]

A friend of mine likes to argue that the US has so many political problems because it has never lost a war, and thus never was forced to adopt radical changes. Remember, Prussia only became a modern state after being beaten into a pulp and then occupied by Napoleon - and sixty years later, it was mopping the floor with some of the most powerful states in Europe.

I pretty much agree with this. Americans crow a lot about America because we've never tangibly had our asses handed to us. It is a mentality I'd love to punch a large, bloody fist hole through. And I live here. I'm so sick of hearing about how exceptional we are despite the data showing we're not. The only exceptional things America does anymore is: entertainment (depending on what kind we're talking about) and making war.

RE: Judges. I don't think the problem is that they're elected by popular vote.

It's that most people don't pay attention to what they do, and tend to rubber stamp them on election ballots when their time comes. I know I've done that. Below the primary candidates for office, and the special issues on the ballot, you get a lot of places for voting on minor county/state officials, and judges. I don't know these people, usually, what their politics are or what they've done. I think that reflects the experience of most American voters. Judges get a pass often because, unless they make the news for saying something really stupid or abusing their powers obviously in court, no one cares.

I generally agree with the principle that judges should be elected rather than appointed so they can retain their judicial independence....but I feel like they need special elections all their own, divorced from the usual county/state elections. That might give both media and the people more time to figure out who these people are, and whether they deserve a vote.

Considering how America handled 9/11, I would be seriously terrified of the behavior if we ever got beat on our home turf. Americans be crazy and armed.

Speakimg of which, can somebody please explain to me why the hell 9/11 was supposedly such a big fucking deal?

We've managed to quickly forget other disasters with high body counts and widespread property damage - you hardly ever hear an6one talk about hurricane katrina anymore, and that destroyed half of New Orleans (and the people who died in katrina were salt of the earth type people who really mattered, whereas many of the people who died in 9/11 were worthless bankers and generals) - what the hell went wrong this time!?

[smeeprocket]

A friend of mine likes to argue that the US has so many political problems because it has never lost a war, and thus never was forced to adopt radical changes. Remember, Prussia only became a modern state after being beaten into a pulp and then occupied by Napoleon - and sixty years later, it was mopping the floor with some of the most powerful states in Europe.

I pretty much agree with this. Americans crow a lot about America because we've never tangibly had our asses handed to us. It is a mentality I'd love to punch a large, bloody fist hole through. And I live here. I'm so sick of hearing about how exceptional we are despite the data showing we're not. The only exceptional things America does anymore is: entertainment (depending on what kind we're talking about) and making war.

RE: Judges. I don't think the problem is that they're elected by popular vote.

It's that most people don't pay attention to what they do, and tend to rubber stamp them on election ballots when their time comes. I know I've done that. Below the primary candidates for office, and the special issues on the ballot, you get a lot of places for voting on minor county/state officials, and judges. I don't know these people, usually, what their politics are or what they've done. I think that reflects the experience of most American voters. Judges get a pass often because, unless they make the news for saying something really stupid or abusing their powers obviously in court, no one cares.

I generally agree with the principle that judges should be elected rather than appointed so they can retain their judicial independence....but I feel like they need special elections all their own, divorced from the usual county/state elections. That might give both media and the people more time to figure out who these people are, and whether they deserve a vote.

Considering how America handled 9/11, I would be seriously terrified of the behavior if we ever got beat on our home turf. Americans be crazy and armed.

Speakimg of which, can somebody please explain to me why the hell 9/11 was supposedly such a big fucking deal?

We've managed to quickly forget other disasters with high body counts and widespread property damage - you hardly ever hear an6one talk about hurricane katrina anymore, and that destroyed half of New Orleans (and the people who died in katrina were salt of the earth type people who really mattered, whereas many of the people who died in 9/11 were worthless bankers and generals) - what the hell went wrong this time!?

Because brown people attacked 'MURICA!

The US didn't think it was possible to ever be attacked on home soil, so it shook people bad.

We think we are better than everyone else. But honestly, I hate to be cold, but you reap what you sow.

[Darvi]

That's not cold. That's literally the opposite of cold. That's on the edge of going up in flames.

[scriver]

A friend of mine likes to argue that the US has so many political problems because it has never lost a war, and thus never was forced to adopt radical changes. Remember, Prussia only became a modern state after being beaten into a pulp and then occupied by Napoleon - and sixty years later, it was mopping the floor with some of the most powerful states in Europe.

I pretty much agree with this. Americans crow a lot about America because we've never tangibly had our asses handed to us. It is a mentality I'd love to punch a large, bloody fist hole through. And I live here. I'm so sick of hearing about how exceptional we are despite the data showing we're not. The only exceptional things America does anymore is: entertainment (depending on what kind we're talking about) and making war.

RE: Judges. I don't think the problem is that they're elected by popular vote.

It's that most people don't pay attention to what they do, and tend to rubber stamp them on election ballots when their time comes. I know I've done that. Below the primary candidates for office, and the special issues on the ballot, you get a lot of places for voting on minor county/state officials, and judges. I don't know these people, usually, what their politics are or what they've done. I think that reflects the experience of most American voters. Judges get a pass often because, unless they make the news for saying something really stupid or abusing their powers obviously in court, no one cares.

I generally agree with the principle that judges should be elected rather than appointed so they can retain their judicial independence....but I feel like they need special elections all their own, divorced from the usual county/state elections. That might give both media and the people more time to figure out who these people are, and whether they deserve a vote.

Considering how America handled 9/11, I would be seriously terrified of the behavior if we ever got beat on our home turf. Americans be crazy and armed.

Speakimg of which, can somebody please explain to me why the hell 9/11 was supposedly such a big fucking deal?

We've managed to quickly forget other disasters with high body counts and widespread property damage - you hardly ever hear an6one talk about hurricane katrina anymore, and that destroyed half of New Orleans (and the people who died in katrina were salt of the earth type people who really mattered, whereas many of the people who died in 9/11 were worthless bankers and generals) - what the hell went wrong this time!?

Those weren't attacks by other people, though. It's hard to direct hate at the wind or ocean.

[Bohandas]

A friend of mine likes to argue that the US has so many political problems because it has never lost a war, and thus never was forced to adopt radical changes. Remember, Prussia only became a modern state after being beaten into a pulp and then occupied by Napoleon - and sixty years later, it was mopping the floor with some of the most powerful states in Europe.

I pretty much agree with this. Americans crow a lot about America because we've never tangibly had our asses handed to us. It is a mentality I'd love to punch a large, bloody fist hole through. And I live here. I'm so sick of hearing about how exceptional we are despite the data showing we're not. The only exceptional things America does anymore is: entertainment (depending on what kind we're talking about) and making war.

RE: Judges. I don't think the problem is that they're elected by popular vote.

It's that most people don't pay attention to what they do, and tend to rubber stamp them on election ballots when their time comes. I know I've done that. Below the primary candidates for office, and the special issues on the ballot, you get a lot of places for voting on minor county/state officials, and judges. I don't know these people, usually, what their politics are or what they've done. I think that reflects the experience of most American voters. Judges get a pass often because, unless they make the news for saying something really stupid or abusing their powers obviously in court, no one cares.

I generally agree with the principle that judges should be elected rather than appointed so they can retain their judicial independence....but I feel like they need special elections all their own, divorced from the usual county/state elections. That might give both media and the people more time to figure out who these people are, and whether they deserve a vote.

Considering how America handled 9/11, I would be seriously terrified of the behavior if we ever got beat on our home turf. Americans be crazy and armed.

Speakimg of which, can somebody please explain to me why the hell 9/11 was supposedly such a big fucking deal?

We've managed to quickly forget other disasters with high body counts and widespread property damage - you hardly ever hear an6one talk about hurricane katrina anymore, and that destroyed half of New Orleans (and the people who died in katrina were salt of the earth type people who really mattered, whereas many of the people who died in 9/11 were worthless bankers and generals) - what the hell went wrong this time!?

The US didn't think it was possible to ever be attacked on home soil, so it shook people bad.

So had these people never attended a history class then?

How ignorant can people be?

[Darvi]

Those weren't attacks by other people, though. It's hard to direct hate at the wind or ocean.

CURSE YOU CLIMATE! I SHALL HAVE MY VENGEANCE! I WILL COVER THE EARTH IN GREENHOUSE GASSES AND MAKE YOU BURN!

[Frumple]

What the zog does any of this have to do with the thread's topic?