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[nenjin]

Actually we do get paid holidays, do have mass transit (just not across the whole country). We technically have public healthcare too. I'm not saying any of these are amazing, but we do have them to some extent.

I was primarily responding to nenjin, who was "Jealous of Australia" in light of these deaths.  It does apply to anyone being hypocritical about it, though.  Nothing in my post suggested I was better than anyone.  You shot at me as I tried to leave, calling my post "lame" without any explanation.  And it's me that's smug and arrogant?

Let's start posting like adults, mkay? As in, no more parting shots, from anyone. I don't care enough about this conversation I won't report people for making it a crappy one.

And for the record, I'm jealous of Australian cops not running roughshod over everything because "LAW ENFORCEMENT." The fact a cop can even be punished over there is something I wish we had going over here. About the only thing here you can be fired for as a cop with no real protections is corruption.

[Rolan7]

Let's start posting like adults, mkay? As in, no more parting shots, from anyone. I don't care enough about this conversation I won't report people for making it a crappy one.

And for the record, I'm jealous of Australian cops not running roughshod over everything because "LAW ENFORCEMENT." The fact a cop can even be punished over there is something I wish we had going over here. About the only thing here you can be fired for as a cop with no real protections is corruption.

Of course cops get punished here, though.  Maybe not as much as they are in Australia?  But yet, they weren't punished at all in the coroner case, despite being present in force and inciting the suspect.

Here's a misconduct conviction chart from a police... watchdog group?
http://www.copblock.org/2841/police-brutality-statistics/
2,541 reports of misconduct in the first half of 2010
In 2009, 33% of charges resulted in convictions, and 64% of those convictions resulted in jail time.  Average amount of time in jail (of those jailed, presumably) was 14 months.

Excessive force was 23.3% of the charges, the largest single category.  Twice as common as sexual misconduct, followed by fraud/theft.  (13% of cases of excessive force resulted in death).

To be fair, this doesn't technically show that any of the excessive force charges resulted in convictions.  But, the creators of the chart were making a case that police misconduct is widespread.  They would have noticed if excessive force charges weren't making it through to conviction and jail time, at least to a reasonable degree.

Lol. Of course, the police are always right. This topic is funny.

I agree with Rolan7 there, the cop should have been at least fired for gross incompetence and possibly sued.

Lol.

I disagree, the police are not always right at all.

[SalmonGod]

Actually we do get paid holidays

Umm... sort of... in 9 of my 10 years working experience, I didn't get any holidays off.  I did get paid double for working those days, but the company had a bunch of fine print that would allow them to deny that extra pay if you screwed up in any way, such as showing up late, not meeting productivity quota, etc the day before or after the holiday.  I don't think the majority of Americans deal with that kind of thing, but I don't think it's exactly uncommon, either.

There's also only a handful of countries in the entire world that don't guarantee paid vacation time or maternity leave, and the U.S. is one of them.

The way our workers are treated and our general quality of life is godawfully abysmal compared to the rest of the world. 

do have mass transit (just not across the whole country)

Which is a barely functional joke just about everywhere save a select few cities.



Anyway, I don't think America's worst problem is apathy.  I think it's that we're so divided.  We have to deconstruct and culturally immunize ourselves against the way our politics and media pit the population against itself before we'll ever be able to challenge the authoritarian corruption that plagues us. 

Right now, we can't even deal with the insanely obvious good cop-bad cop/lesser of two evils tactic that keeps us stuck with two parties that cooperate with each other to prevent any challenges to their combined political dominance and both agree on supporting and escalating the police/surveillance state, environmental destruction, rising inequality, and the emerging corporate feudalist cyberpunk dystopia that America is in general.

And a not insignificant second factor is that everyone's too busy trying to keep up with their working lives and make ends meet day to day to engage in building a better future.  This is why activism is stereotyped as dominated by young white kids, because they're the only people that have the time and freedom to bother.  Everyone else only gets a couple hours a day at most to themselves (which they spend dealing with their exhaustion), and their lives fall apart very quickly if they don't tend to the responsibilities that dominate the rest of their day.  Anyone who isn't living like this is generally either in the privileged minority, or of some class that is kept marginalized by the overwhelming and brutal police state.

[MDFification]

Anyway, I don't think America's worst problem is apathy.  I think it's that we're so divided.  We have to deconstruct and culturally immunize ourselves against the way our politics and media pit the population against itself before we'll ever be able to challenge the authoritarian corruption that plagues us. 

I think America's biggest problem is elected judges. Essentially this leads to judges trying to build reputations of being "tough on crime" and ramping up on sentencing to get reelected.
At the same time, judges then are more likely to rule in favor of business litigants because they provide campaign funding. Judges also typically refuse to go against their local law-enforcement, because they can make their life very hard and if you're not guaranteed to keep your position until you reach retirement or are disbarred for inappropriate conduct like an appointed judge not getting as many convictions from lack of police cooperation can mean you loose your "tough on crime" image and loose the next election.

Basically everywhere else in the world judges are appointed based on their experience in the profession and how much people who've observed them work think they'll do as a judge. Electing a judge just means they're responsible to people who are quite frankly ignorant (your average person can't represent themselves in court for a reason) of how the law's supposed to work. The principle of "better 10 guilty men go free than 1 innocent person goes to jail" for example doesn't seem to be widely sympathized with in America at the moment, but it's a key concept in the rule of law.

[nenjin]

Which is a barely functional joke just about everywhere save a select few cities.

It's definitely not a European Metro. But I've found the Mass Transit in DC and Chicago to not be that bad.

[Phmcw]

Our mass transit system already suck and are underfunded. We barely manage to keep them at a "tolerable" level, and not in every cities.
I'm always dumfound to see americain praise them, they suck and are getting worst. But yeah, compared to what you guy have, being able to get anywhere in every city by mass transit seems to be a marvel of efficiency.

Mind you, it's not fast, reliable and comfortable enough, and it's too expensive, at least in France and in Belgium.

[smjjames]

Our mass transit system already suck and are underfunded. We barely manage to keep them at a "tolerable" level, and not in every cities.
I'm always dumfound to see americain praise them, they suck and are getting worst. But yeah, compared to what you guy have, being able to get anywhere in every city by mass transit seems to be a marvel of efficiency.

Mind you, it's not fast, reliable and comfortable enough, and it's too expensive, at least in France and in Belgium.

Where are you from again? Belgium?

[Phmcw]

Yeah, I'm from Belgium, and I've been in France a lot.

[smjjames]

Yeah, I'm from Belgium, and I've been in France a lot.

Okay. You really can't compare Belgiums mass transit system with ours (unless you go on a city by city or regional basis) because most of our states are bigger than your country and we span half a continent coast to coast. I'm not trying to be 'Oh hey, we're bigger than you, deal with it', I'm talking about comparing realistically since there is far more area for us to cover and connect for a mass transit system.

[smeeprocket]

Yes let's just take the police officers' words for it. I mean, it's not like there's a seriously inordinate number of killing against unarmed civilians, black individuals in particular.

Nothing to see here, no reason not to trust the police, just listen to what they say, (and they won't shoot you.)

[smeeprocket]

America had a great mass transit system going early in the 20th century actually. It literally got bought out and dismantled by the oil and automobile tycoons.

[smjjames]

America had a great mass transit system going early in the 20th century actually. It literally got bought out and dismantled by the oil and automobile tycoons.

I thought it was mostly outcompeted? Though in the end it ended up getting outcompeted I think.

[Rolan7]

I love using the rail systems in big cities like Boston, DC, and Seattle.  The combination of walking and riding allows so many more options than driving.

My home three-city area desperately needed a commuter rail between them, but it's been in the planning stages for years now...  I think the earliest estimates are a decade away.  There's a good area bus line connecting them, though, and each has a local bus system with mostly half-hour stop intervals.

[nenjin]

Here I'd just kill for a bus system that doesn't close down after 7pm. I swear the only reasons my city doesn't do it is a) they don't think the poors can afford to support a late night bus route b) they're ascared of the poors and c) they'd rather let college students and everyone else try to drive drunk from downtown and get ticketed. Seriously for a city of 225,000 or so, covering only a couple miles worth of town, a nightly bus system makes a lot of sense. But NOPE! They'd rather cut services and routes instead. Doesn't bother me so much since I drive again, but as a college student it was fucking balls.

[Phmcw]

Here I'd just kill for a bus system that doesn't close down after 7pm. I swear the only reasons my city doesn't do it is a) they don't think the poors can afford to support a late night bus route b) they're ascared of the poors and c) they'd rather let college students and everyone else try to drive and get ticketed. Seriously for a city of 225,000 or so, covering only a couple miles worth of town, a nightly bus system makes a lot of sense. But NOPE! They'd rather cut services and routes instead. Doesn't bother me so much since I drive again, but as a college student it was fucking balls.

... I am upset that most transport close at midnight and only a few bus lines are active at night. I still think metro should function all night.