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[Rolan7]

The article doesn't specify how many officers other than the terminated officer responded. Was it 2? 6? More? How many cops does it take to subdue a college kid that is guaranteed to weigh a fraction of what they do? Was it reasonable for him to not get involved?

Yes good, maybe there were 6 cops in the room!  Maybe he was asleep, too!

For all we know, his "leaving an active scene" was him leaving to call his command and be like "this shit is getting out of hand, what should I do?" Or to report what he'd just seen.

We don't know.

Yes, that is my point.  We don't know.  Except *you* seem to know that the officer was unjustly fired for "exercising discretion", despite what the article says, and keep claiming as much.

The article doesn't specify, and with all the police-related shit going on, that's probably not for a lack of trying. You're simply taking the not-terminated police at their word. I am not. Nowhere does the article specify why he was actually fired. But presumably it was after ~11 months of deliberation, and it's relates to this incident specifically.

So with all due respect

We know they didn't.  You keep saying they did, but that is wrong.

Kindly stop telling me I'm wrong, because _we_ don't _know_ shit.

Fine.

[Phmcw]

And it's not wildly premature to fire a 20 year veteran exercising police discretion, without the results of a full investigation?

This! Also, is the "procedure" really to scream "get on the ground" the to taze the fuck out of peoples if they don't comply?

If so can I come work in the US? I'm a sysadmin, but using the same standards I'll reboot any malfunctionning server once and then trow it out and buy a new one if that fail.
I'll also expect to report myself those expenses and no one else to put his nose in my reporting, just like the police. For my performance report I've got two experts, me and my pal. Is that ok?
All that troubleeshooting, and configuration nonsense...

Um, do you have a different analogy? That one kind of went over my head due to me not being a sysadmin.

What is your job?

[smjjames]

And it's not wildly premature to fire a 20 year veteran exercising police discretion, without the results of a full investigation?

This! Also, is the "procedure" really to scream "get on the ground" the to taze the fuck out of peoples if they don't comply?

If so can I come work in the US? I'm a sysadmin, but using the same standards I'll reboot any malfunctionning server once and then trow it out and buy a new one if that fail.
I'll also expect to report myself those expenses and no one else to put his nose in my reporting, just like the police. For my performance report I've got two experts, me and my pal. Is that ok?
All that troubleeshooting, and configuration nonsense...

Um, do you have a different analogy? That one kind of went over my head due to me not being a sysadmin.

What is your job?

I don't have a job right now. Well, a volunteer thing at Habitat for Humanity, but still doing jobsearch with no results.

[nenjin]

He's basically making a joke about having zero accountability to anyone but himself.

[Phmcw]

He's basically making a joke about having zero accountability to anyone but himself.

And working with the subtlety and comptence of a rampaging caveman.

[Propman]

Crossposting from the wtf thread:

Apparently the cop violence protestors are planning on disrupting the royal couples (William and Kate) NYC visit. Come on, theres no point to doing that and they've got nothing to do with the whole thing.

I get it, they want to keep the attention on the issue, but why target William and Kate? Not like they can do some sort of royal decree or some such thing. Not that we'd obey it anyhow.

You know, if the protesters are being antagonized by the police, shouldn't they be directing their riots towards police property, picketing at police stations, and doing their best to protest against the police, a la India? Even though it's clear I don't exactly think highly of the current US police force, the defensive shouldn't be forcefully dragging third parties into what is essence their conflict against them, and I doubt that these sort of stunts exactly endear them to the public.

[Reelya]

This might seem like an alien world compared to the American stories:

Drunk guy dies of liver failure in  Australian jail cell, senior responsible officer totally sacked from the police force and 3 others demoted/put on good behavior bonds.

Australian police shot dead knife-weilding man. coronor finds that they should have been able to resolve the matter peacefully. Although in this case no-one got sacked because he did actually charge them while screaming, the coronor reprimanded the commanding officer for using inciting language..

So, in many other countries even "he had a knife" or something isn't seen as valid justification for a cop to shoot someone dead. This is the advantage of a solid separation of powers between the police department and the coronor/state prosecutors. That relationship looks way too cozy in the USA.

[nenjin]

IIRC, standard procedure is for them to not tell the coroner anything so they can arrive at their own, unbiased decisions. I doubt it really works that way in real life.

Also, it's a hell of a day when I find myself jealous of Australia. No offense But dying in a jail cell illness or injury or disease? Hell, that happens here all the time in prison and no one bats an eye anymore.

[Reelya]

If you're in the USA you should be damn jealous of the standard of living in Australia. median wealth in USA is $US44000. here, it's $US219000. You really are a nation of shoeless peasants. We also beat you on mean wealth, too, so everyone is richer. Even our homeless people are wealthier than your working poor. A homeless person here is entitled to income support of $250/week.

[nenjin]

If you're in the USA you should be damn jealous of the standard of living in Australia. median wealth in USA is $US44000. here, it's $US219000. You really are a nation of shoeless peasants. We also beat you on mean wealth, too, so everyone is richer. Even our homeless people are wealthier than your working poor.

Enjoy your freakishly large insects and arachnids and video game tax though, mate

[Reelya]

Large insects are only a thing if you go 100's of kilometers away from civilization and camp out in the rainforest. That's like 2000 kilometers away from where I live and doesn't affect me. The most dangerous thing within 1000KM of me is a koala.

A spider hasn't killed anyone in Australia since the 1970's.

There is no "video game tax", and the refusal to have an R18 rating for games effectively means that children can buy GTA5 here as a kid's game (you can get GTA5 and it's M15 here). So actually, games classification are more lax here, not more strict.

BTW Americans are more likely to be killed by an alligator than an Australian is by a snake. So I can ask you how are the alligators going? Did one get you yet?

[Rolan7]

Are you seriously praising Australia because their police shot a guy dead and weren't fired?
Just because the coroner (the coroner??) "reprimanded" them for *inciting* the guy?

I... I think I'm out.  Good luck, have fun.

[Reelya]

Are you seriously praising Australia because their police shot a guy dead and weren't fired?
Just because the coroner (the coroner??) "reprimanded" them for *inciting* the guy?

I... I think I'm out.  Good luck, have fun.

I was linking the first story specifically.

The second one was incidental, as a comparison to the way USA would handle the inquiry. The facts of the case were - a guy charged at officers while wielding a kitchen knife, officers shot him, and the coronor found that they overstepped the line. We're not talking an unarmed man here, or a guy threatening self-harm with a weapon, we're talking an armed person running towards officers while threatening them with a large knife, so the officers clearly shot in a self-defense situation.

My point was that here, even when the police have reasonable justification, the coronors here don't just rubber-stamp the police actions.

Also, the politicians over there are even worse than here.

No, really just Abbott. Even previous leaders of his party didn't want anything to do with his crazy policies, but he was last man standing because of everyone else, in both major parties, careers imploding after the global financial crisis. He's only been in power for a little over 1 year. In that 1 year he's managed to become such a big laughingstock around the world :/

[nenjin]

BTW Americans are more likely to be killed by an alligator than an Australian is by a snake. So I can ask you how are the alligators going? Did one get you yet?

They're doing fine. They got their own TV shows and shit.

[Frumple]

... the young ones are the cutest things, honestly. And kinda' friendly! They seem to like being petted, anyway. Shame it's generally somewhat terribly illegal to have one as a pet. Not that it stops people, exactly, but still.

Bigger ones, you mostly just avoid. They're generally not terribly aggressive and usually fairly obvious.

Regardless, I'm fairly sure you're more likely to be killed by a snake, at least in florida, than a gator. Especially considering it looks like it's been about five years since someone got got anywhere in the states. Can't speak for other states regarding snake deadliness, though.

That more-likely-to-die-by-gator than australian by snake seems kinda' spurious, though. We've only lost about 20 folks to gator in the last four decades, country wide. Roughly similar time period's seen about double that killed by snake in aus, with a considerably smaller population...