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[stabbymcstabstab]

Salmon Unless you have a job there, or have skills and the ability to prove your better at that job then every Canadian you probably won't become a citizen, also the Canadian legal system and political system is a lot different, a recommend moving to a different state if you want a change.

Also to explain my knowledge I live on a border town and usually spend one to two months out of the year up north, and I friends with a few Canadian border agents.

[SalmonGod]

Wanting to move somewhere else because you dislike where you are has a known and proven bias effect against the homeland and for the destination, one that rubs off after a few months.

I have to say, though... I've heard this many times and I'm sure there is truth in it, but never seen an actual example.  Everyone I've met who has ever managed to live somewhere else for an extended period didn't want to come back, and I have at least one permanent ex-pat friend from meatspace.  He did one of those programs where he taught English in South Korea for a year.  Coming back afterwards, he found he could no longer stand living in the U.S.  Worked his ass off to get back to Korea and has never come back.

[RoaryStar]

I'm Canadian and I'd like to say a few things.

First, immigration is pretty hard. The government is limiting it to a few thousand a year, so you pretty much have to send in your application on New Year's to consider having much of a chance.

Second, it's incredibly hard to get a job without references. Most jobs, for outsiders, would be lowest-level jobs as all the higher-level jobs are taken by people already inside the company. Healthcare may be free, but only if you live there permanently and have a Health Card. (In Ontario, it's the OHIP, Ontario Health Insurance Plan) Even if healthcare is free, you'll need money for food unless you're willing to go to a food bank to get food, and also to pay for rent/property taxes/any other bills.

Basically, if you don't have any references or friends in Canada at all, then it would be incredibly challenging.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Wanting to move somewhere else because you dislike where you are has a known and proven bias effect against the homeland and for the destination, one that rubs off after a few months.

I have to say, though... I've heard this many times and I'm sure there is truth in it, but never seen an actual example.  Everyone I've met who has ever managed to live somewhere else for an extended period didn't want to come back, and I have at least one permanent ex-pat friend from meatspace.  He did one of those programs where he taught English in South Korea for a year.  Coming back afterwards, he found he could no longer stand living in the U.S.  Worked his ass off to get back to Korea and has never come back.

For what it's worth, you and I are similarly placed politically despite our vehement differences, and I was not swayed by my time in Taiwan or South Korea. They're both nice places, and I'd probably consider them if the US were to be destroyed or something, but not as is.

[SalmonGod]

Wanting to move somewhere else because you dislike where you are has a known and proven bias effect against the homeland and for the destination, one that rubs off after a few months.

I have to say, though... I've heard this many times and I'm sure there is truth in it, but never seen an actual example.  Everyone I've met who has ever managed to live somewhere else for an extended period didn't want to come back, and I have at least one permanent ex-pat friend from meatspace.  He did one of those programs where he taught English in South Korea for a year.  Coming back afterwards, he found he could no longer stand living in the U.S.  Worked his ass off to get back to Korea and has never come back.

For what it's worth, you and I are similarly placed politically despite our vehement differences, and I was not swayed by my time in Taiwan or South Korea. They're both nice places, and I'd probably consider them if the US were to be destroyed or something, but not as is.

I wouldn't call our differences vehement.

Anyway, neither Taiwan or South Korea have ever looked like places I'd especially like to move to.

If it's really that difficult to get into Canada, though, we'll probably focus our efforts on Washington.  And just to reiterate, I'm absolutely not planning on moving anywhere without having a job and housing lined up first.  The funds are only relevant for the costs of relocating.

[Levi]

But I've never even been outside the U.S. before in my life.  Anyone here have any experience with this?  Any advice for me?  Reasons I should re-consider?  I've been doing a bit of reading, and I see that Canada has a legal immigration process involving a point system that you must score sufficiently on to get permission.  How tough is it to qualify?  Is Vancouver as awesome a place as it sounds?  Fill my eyes with juicy knowledge about getting the fuck out of here.

Everybody I know who has taken the test said it was easier than they expected.

Vancouver is great, pretty much the nicest place I've lived(not that I've lived in many places).  The only downside to Vancouver is its a bit expensive to live in.

[wobbly]

But I've never even been outside the U.S. before in my life.

Honestly I'd change this one before moving somewhere else. There's nothing wrong with having a holiday somewhere & taking a look around to see if it's somewhere you'd like to live first.

[XXSockXX]

I have no idea how immigration to Canada works (you'd have to find someone who has made the US->Canada transition themselves), but I guess it's something that should be well thought out, since you're not on your own, but responsible for a whole family.
Does the company you work for maybe have offices in Canada? A friend of mine considered emigrating from Germany to Sweden for a time, his company fully supported him, offered him a job there and even offered help with language courses, housing and stuff. He ultimately didn't go through with it, but it seems that big international companies do have advantages sometimes in that regard.

[SalmonGod]

My employer has an office in Toronto, but I really have my heart set on BC.

We found a place in Redmond that kinda seems too good to be true.  Much nicer home than we're living in now, for about the same price... and in Redmond.  We can't find anything wrong with it.  I'm going to start applying for jobs in the area immediately and see if we can pounce on it before it disappears. 

[Meph]

But I've never even been outside the U.S. before in my life.

Honestly I'd change this one before moving somewhere else. There's nothing wrong with having a holiday somewhere & taking a look around to see if it's somewhere you'd like to live first.

I would like to second that. You are used to white/western/english-speaking nations. You honestly cant know if a different culture would suit you better or not. Moving somewhere doesnt have to be permanent, I have plenty of friends that live half a year or a year in one country, then go to another one. The more experiences you gather, the easier it will be to decide where to live.

[Levi]

Aw come on.  Canada isn't THAT different than the US culturally. 

Here, I've got this handy primer that will help with the integration process.

[PigtailLlama]

At first it was just talk about moving out of state, because fuck Indiana.  We've both concluded that we are never going to improve our life situation as long as we're stuck in this shitty state.  But then it moved on to wondering how difficult it would be to make it into Canada...

to be honest I have to give a +1 to that. The job market and our state government has no idea of what new generations entering the workforce want in life.

Do we want government-backed jobs? No
Do we want unmeaningful jobs from big soulless corporations? No
Do we want to work in the service industry or manufacturing? NO NO NO

We want jobs that allow the better use of creativity and foster a positive learning environment with acceptable tolerances for mistakes, or an environment that fosters small businesses over large ones. Most of Indiana doesn't allow that as your best bet is most likely Bloomington with its liberal and progressive environment, and even with that you'll have to start your own business in order to do whatever you want.

I can't offer you much help other than you'll probably find the environment you're looking for in Quebec or BC if it's something akin to Bloomington. Edmonton might be third choice as well, not really sure though.

[SalmonGod]

You are used to white/western/english-speaking nations.

That's why Canada is the only other country I'm considering

At first it was just talk about moving out of state, because fuck Indiana.  We've both concluded that we are never going to improve our life situation as long as we're stuck in this shitty state.  But then it moved on to wondering how difficult it would be to make it into Canada...

to be honest I have to give a +1 to that. The job market and our state government has no idea of what new generations entering the workforce want in life.

Do we want government-backed jobs? No
Do we want unmeaningful jobs from big soulless corporations? No
Do we want to work in the service industry or manufacturing? NO NO NO

We want jobs that allow the better use of creativity and foster a positive learning environment with acceptable tolerances for mistakes, or an environment that fosters small businesses over large ones. Most of Indiana doesn't allow that as your best bet is most likely Bloomington with its liberal and progressive environment, and even with that you'll have to start your own business in order to do whatever you want.

I can't offer you much help other than you'll probably find the environment you're looking for in Quebec or BC if it's something akin to Bloomington. Edmonton might be third choice as well, not really sure though.

Haven't spent much time in Bloomington, though I have some friends who live(d) there.

As for the jobs thing... it does suck that there is very little opportunity here for my chosen field (digital art), but the types of work available isn't really the problem.  It's that workers here have literally zero rights.  Everybody is fucking miserable because their employers walk all over them every day.  I don't know a single person who doesn't complain about being treated like shit at their job.  And the concept of work-life balance is like a heresy here.  And I think this is also due to a lack of small businesses.  There's a family owned diner or landscaping business here and there, but otherwise everything is big corporations, which are usually horrible places to work.

So I'm really hoping that I'll find some better workplace culture and opportunities to get into some art-related work.

[Descan]

Not that I think you'll mind, but Canada is a *very* multicultural place. I think Vancouver is called like... "Hongcouver" or something, tongue-in-cheek, because of all the Hong-Kong ex-pats from the British turnover.

So that might be a bit of a culture shock, it's not so much white/European any more. Still western back-bone, but every immigrant brings a bit of their culture in and adds it to Canada.

[Aerval]

Not that I think you'll mind, but Canada is a *very* multicultural place. I think Vancouver is called like... "Hongcouver" or something, tongue-in-cheek, because of all the Hong-Kong ex-pats from the British turnover.

So that might be a bit of a culture shock, it's not so much white/European any more. Still western back-bone, but every immigrant brings a bit of their culture in and adds it to Canada.

While it is true that there are sometimes about 90 percent asian people around, anybody who is not racist wont have a problem with that. Its like in any other wester city with a big china town and a lot of asian looking people that behave like normal western people. Infact people here are even much more friendly than I have experienced in any big city in the US (not that I have been to many).

But what I think and what other also have stated is the problem to find a work in Canada. I am currently here in Vancouver as a research student being payed from my government in Germany but still it wasn't like they really wanted me to work for them for free. But as you wanted to come to stay and for being employed by I local company it will be a lot more diffucult for you to find a job. This is because to be able to get a working visa here in Canada you need to have a job offer from a local company but also the company needs proof that they could not find anyone else in Canada would could do the same job and therfore need exactly you. I wont say that this makes Canada especially difficult in this regard but working in another country in general is not as easy as getting a job there.
On the other hand, while I found Canada and Vancouver very expensive in comparison to Germany, I do not think it is that much more expensive than the US. I have only been in Hanover, NH before but from the prices I had to pay there it was not that much different to here. The thing is that you can not afford (nobody can, super small cottages start at around $1.000.000) to buy a house here in Vancouver but finding some place for (a reasonable) rent seems possible. But yeah, I am single student and not a family of three.