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[SalmonGod]

So anyone on the boards who's noticed me at all in the 4 years I've been hanging around here has probably noticed that I don't like living in the U.S.  People who know me even more have often have heard me go on about how much I want to leave, and asked me if I'm ever going to actually do anything about it.  But every time I would begin to look at what I would need to do, it felt like staring up at an insurmountable legal and financial mountain.

Right now my wife and I are thinking maybe we have an opportunity to do that?...

When I left Fedex a year ago, I was eligible to hold on to two sponsored retirement fund accounts, since I'd worked there for 7 years.  I suggested back then that we just cash them out and pay off debts, since they drain money faster than our savings accumulate.  She was like "yeah, maybe..." and avoided the subject, apparently not on board.  But now that she's been out of school for well over a year and still doesn't have a job, we've hit a point where we've been forced to dip into those retirement funds.  This broke whatever resistance was there, and we're cashing it all out. 

So we're talking about how we're going to allocate those funds.  It's not a huge amount.  After taxes, it'll be something like 8 month's pay.  But it's the most money we'll have ever had in the bank.  And we start thinking... if we're serious about making a big move somewhere, this will be the best opportunity we've ever had.  If we can just find work somewhere, we could actually invest in relocation.  At first it was just talk about moving out of state, because fuck Indiana.  We've both concluded that we are never going to improve our life situation as long as we're stuck in this shitty state.  But then it moved on to wondering how difficult it would be to make it into Canada...

And honestly, I have no clue.  But it would be amazing.  For so many reasons.  Especially for our kids.  Better education.  A more safe and culturally tolerant environment.  We're especially worried about healthcare, because when my wife does find work, we're going to lose Medicaid coverage for our diabetic son... and his medical costs will be horrible.  We both already avoid going to the doctor as much as possible for financial reasons, and because it's near impossible to find doctors who care about helping you more than throwing expensive prescriptions at you.

I'm also thinking that I have enough specialized experience under my belt now in the field of customs brokerage and logistics coordination, that maybe I do have a shot at landing a position far away with a company that would be willing to put up with my relocation difficulties.

But I've never even been outside the U.S. before in my life.  Anyone here have any experience with this?  Any advice for me?  Reasons I should re-consider?  I've been doing a bit of reading, and I see that Canada has a legal immigration process involving a point system that you must score sufficiently on to get permission.  How tough is it to qualify?  Is Vancouver as awesome a place as it sounds?  Fill my eyes with juicy knowledge about getting the fuck out of here.

[Descan]

I don't know anything about the Canadian immigration system, but I think we'd do well to have you.

Honk.

[Baffler]

I don't know about the rest, but I've been to Vancouver and it is indeed ridiculously awesome, but it's ungodly expensive to live there, or near it for that matter. Prices are significantly higher than even Seattle for just about everything. A good place to visit though, without a doubt.

[SalmonGod]

Hmm... I know Bay12 is a diverse crowd, with some members who have done much traveling.  I was hoping someone would have some advice.

[ragman le bon]

I have no experience of Canada or it's immigration system but I do know it's a big place and probably quite different east to west etc. Personally I would want to visit a country before I thought about moving there. Have you been applying for jobs in Vancouver, or anywhere else in Canada? If you had a job offer I think you could feel fairly secure in moving there and seeing how it goes but it's easy to spend 8 months salary setting up in a new place and trying to find a job. Presumably immigration is a lot easier if you have a job there to go to? If your kids are young moving won't affect them much and if you don't like it there you could come back, you've lost nothing. But I'd be cautious and go where you have work

[SalmonGod]

I wouldn't move anywhere without having a job secured and waiting for me when I get there.

We're reconsidering, though... I looked into how much the legal immigration process costs alone, and it's quite a bit.  We're both thinking we're not ready for it.  So right now we're looking into maybe moving to Washington, living there while we try to improve our financial situation, and trying to eventually move into BC from there.  We can invest in expensive huge distance relocation now, and then the expensive immigration process further down the road, without the huge distance.

Still in conceptual stages, though...

[martinuzz]

There are also countries where 8 months US pay is 8 years or more local pay. There's opportunities in that, if you can find a market gap to start up your own small company there with your funds, with whatever proficiency you have, and are prepared to really put work in it. That's a big leap though, if you've never been outside of the US, and your child's healthcare needs will narrow down the available options. Although there are arguably quite a few second world / third world countries that have better healthcare accessibility than the US.

[Meph]

Hmm... I know Bay12 is a diverse crowd, with some members who have done much traveling.  I was hoping someone would have some advice.

i have been to 115 countries, but as a traveller, not moving in with working visa, buying property, getting a job and starting a family. I will gladly answer what I can though, if you need info about more exotic places than Canada.

[LordBucket]

There are also countries where 8 months US pay is 8 years or more local pay.

How many of them are places you'd want to live, though? I think the image of taking US dollars to third world nations and buying things with nickels and telling the impoverished locals to keep the change...I don't think that happens anymore. Sure, you could choose to live in a rural vietnamese village with neither electricity nor plumbing or something, but if you want to live in a place where there's actually anything to spend your money on...where exactly were you thinking?

if you can find a market gap to start up your own small company there with your funds, with whatever proficiency you have

Even if you do find a place where there's a ~12:1 real value of money rate favoring US dollars, if you start a company in one of those places, the locals won't be paying you in 12 times the number of dollars for you to benefit from it.

[SalmonGod]

There are also countries where 8 months US pay is 8 years or more local pay.

How many of them are places you'd want to live, though? I think the image of taking US dollars to third world nations and buying things with nickels and telling the impoverished locals to keep the change...I don't think that happens anymore. Sure, you could choose to live in a rural vietnamese village with neither electricity nor plumbing or something, but if you want to live in a place where there's actually anything to spend your money on...where exactly were you thinking?

if you can find a market gap to start up your own small company there with your funds, with whatever proficiency you have

Even if you do find a place where there's a ~12:1 real value of money rate favoring US dollars, if you start a company in one of those places, the locals won't be paying you in 12 times the number of dollars for you to benefit from it.

I have heard stories of people taking their money to remote, exotic locations and building small, successful tourist resorts... but that's not something I'm considering in the slightest.

[Fniff]

I don't know precisely how hard it is to get into Canada, but I heard it's rather difficult.

[Descan]

Also, citizenship will get harder to achieve if Bill C-24 goes through, as well as you being able to be stripped of it if you commit a crime or "act of terrorism."

Considering your politics, and considering how the government has been going lately, I would watch out for that. Peaceful protesting and such might be something they consider an "act of terrorism." :/

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I'd say to be careful what you wish for, SG. Wanting to move somewhere else because you dislike where you are has a known and proven bias effect against the homeland and for the destination, one that rubs off after a few months. Like it or not, you are a born and bred American, and there are plenty of things that you take and enjoy with such absolute triviality that you never even think about it, unless and until you no longer have it. Even Canada, for all it's synchronization with America, is still a foreign country. You will run into these problems, whether or not you can overcome them is something I can't answer for you. More than one person has said "fuck it all" and found themselves unhappy due to not considering the reality of it. America is not all bad and Canada is not perfect, and unless you come to a deep understanding of that you'll run into serious problems in Canada.

In truth, your Washington plan is better. I suspect if you spend a while in a highly liberal and diverse part of the country (i.e., not Indiana), you might reconsider this plan. Even if you do not, you should still give it a shot and, perhaps more importantly, spend a few months in Canada in a semi-permanant way before making the final decision (you can stay 180 consecutive days without a visa).

[SalmonGod]

Considering your politics, and considering how the government has been going lately, I would watch out for that. Peaceful protesting and such might be something they consider an "act of terrorism." :/

I've been pretty outspoken on the internet since my late teens, but otherwise I've never actually engaged in any protesting.  I visited the Occupy chapter in Indianapolis their first weekend there, dropped off some water, and hung out for a few hours.  There was nothing going on at the time, though.  It was the only protest I've ever heard of in this state my entire life, and it was completely uneventful.  They had a handful of organized events, didn't challenge the police on anything (were told not to set up tents on public property day 1 and never tried), and fizzled out on their own after only a couple months.  Indiana is probably one of the most apathetic places in the world.

I'd say to be careful what you wish for, SG. Wanting to move somewhere else because you dislike where you are has a known and proven bias effect against the homeland and for the destination, one that rubs off after a few months. Like it or not, you are a born and bred American, and there are plenty of things that you take and enjoy with such absolute triviality that you never even think about it, unless and until you no longer have it. Even Canada, for all it's synchronization with America, is still a foreign country. You will run into these problems, whether or not you can overcome them is something I can't answer for you. More than one person has said "fuck it all" and found themselves unhappy due to not considering the reality of it. America is not all bad and Canada is not perfect, and unless you come to a deep understanding of that you'll run into serious problems in Canada.

This is half the reason I made this thread.  I was hoping someone would have personal experience to share regarding real differences between the two countries vs common perceptions, and what it's like to transition.  I've been looking elsewhere for such things, but finding mostly useless arguments.

The thing is, it will likely be a very long time before I'll have a chunk of money on hand again for funding this kind of move, and I'm trying to take my kids into consideration.  I see the U.S. as a horrible place to raise children (education/lack of opportunity/healthcare/abusive authority figures/anti-parent workplace culture).  If we don't do this now, they may be young adults before we'll be able to try again.  Assuming my comparisons aren't deluded to begin with, they'll be missing out on the benefits of partially growing up in another place, and if we decide to make the move when they're adults, it will likely involve separating from them.

[Descan]

IF you don't actively protest, I think you might be alright? But you never know, unless Harper is voted out entirely and the next government fixes some of this shit, it might get worse.