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[SlatersQuest]

Hmm... that's something that needs to be fixed, then. Writing to newspapers when free speech is C+ shouldn't be effective (why should newspapers other than the Liberal Guardian be exempt from the Firemen?)...

[Liberal Elitist]

Hmm... that's something that needs to be fixed, then. Writing to newspapers when free speech is C+ shouldn't be effective (why should newspapers other than the Liberal Guardian be exempt from the Firemen?)...

Writing to newspapers isn't effective. Ever. At least not in my experience. It barely has any effect on public opinion. As for why it's allowed when free speech is C+, well let's just say that the things the LCS writes in to newspapers to say would all be self-censored so as not to contain any "harmful speech". You know about the self-censoring when free speech laws are C+, with the substitute text in [brackets]. It's still usually possible to tell what the original meaning was. Sometimes it's changed a bit, like when terrorists plan to [put] fertilizer [on plants] at a federal building, when the original meaning is that terrorists plan to use fertilizer to blow up a federal building (that's a newspaper story that's censored under C+ free speech laws). But still you can kinda get the gist of it... as demonstrated by still being able to ask people out on dates with C+ free speech laws. And you can still talk to people about the issues with C+ free speech laws too, although maybe that text needs special censored versions with [brackets] for when the free speech laws are C+.

[SlatersQuest]

Hmm... we need to have some kind of thoughtcrime mechanic, then.

[Neonivek]

Either that or the closer to C+ the country is the less effective "diplomatic" means become until C+ where there is no freedom of information and you have to beat things into people's heads.

[Liberal Elitist]

Either that or the closer to C+ the country is the less effective "diplomatic" means become until C+ where there is no freedom of information and you have to beat things into people's heads.

And make pacifist nightmare mode runs IMPOSSIBLE? They should just be very hard, not impossible. You shouldn't HAVE TO beat things into people's heads... it should just be the easier but somewhat illegal option, while also giving a harder pacifist legal option that is less effective. This game is pro-choice, it's all about offering different choices.

[Neonivek]

And make pacifist nightmare mode runs IMPOSSIBLE?

Legal? Really? At C+

Well ok, I guess Nightmare mode is more of a bad night's sleep.

[SlatersQuest]

Well, I can easily think of nonviolent methods of playing even on nightmare mode, but legal is another matter...

[Liberal Elitist]

     Well OK, community service is legal, writing to newspapers is legal, but those are both extremely ineffective. But there are also illegal things you can get away with if you are careful. Like OK, murder is illegal, but if you backstab someone with a knife, they die in a 1-hit kill, and there are no witnesses, you don't get charged with a crime. And if you kidnap someone you're on a date with and convert them before anyone finds out they were missing, you can make them a sleeper and not be suspected of the crime of kidnapping. If you commit the crime of flag burning when it's illegal but then flag burning is legalized, you're no longer suspected of it anymore, and the same goes for harmful speech and drug dealing. Now, I don't think I've ever actually beat the game without doing illegal things. But I HAVE beaten the game without engaging in any physical violence (although in my pacifist runs I DID break the law). Maybe my previous post about allowing people to beat the game nonviolently was badly written, I didn't mean that it's possible to beat the game without doing anything illegal, what I meant was, it's possible to beat the game without getting CAUGHT doing anything illegal and without being SUSPECTED of anything illegal, although you would still do illegal things obviously. I'm not sure whether or not it should be possible to beat the game without even DOING anything illegal. I think so, but it ought to be very very very very hard, I mean SUPER-hard, MUCH harder than beating it the normal way involving breaking laws, the kind of challenge an elite player would do. That is what I was trying to say. And I was also trying to say it's possible to beat the game nonviolently. Not so much legally. Although I do find that possibility intriguing.

[Neonivek]

Well OK, community service is legal, writing to newspapers is legal, but those are both extremely ineffective

Where are the thought police in all of this?

[SlatersQuest]

Oh it's possible to win without doing anything illegal, although probably not on Nightmare mode. Having your sleepers snoop for special edition material for the Liberal Guardian is not actually a crime (it's grounds for termination of employment, but not actually criminal). Then, in normal mode at least, when the CCS wakes up, you can use the Guardian to demonize them and have them trigger the opposite effects of what they're trying to.

As for the thought police, I'm thinking that maybe when Privacy and Free Speech are both C+ that it might be criminal being a liberal at all. However, actually catching you committing thoughtcrime would be difficult, so you're unlikely to be so much as suspected of it unless you're also suspected of other crimes as well.

[Cheedows]

Oh it's possible to win without doing anything illegal, although probably not on Nightmare mode. Having your sleepers snoop for special edition material for the Liberal Guardian is not actually a crime (it's grounds for termination of employment, but not actually criminal). Then, in normal mode at least, when the CCS wakes up, you can use the Guardian to demonize them and have them trigger the opposite effects of what they're trying to.

As for the thought police, I'm thinking that maybe when Privacy and Free Speech are both C+ that it might be criminal being a liberal at all. However, actually catching you committing thoughtcrime would be difficult, so you're unlikely to be so much as suspected of it unless you're also suspected of other crimes as well.

You'll probably get raided a whole bunch by the CCS and force you to publish the backers list.

[SlatersQuest]

You'll probably get raided a whole bunch by the CCS and force you to publish the backers list.

Or you could just shoot them when they show up. Killing CCS vigilantes in self-defense is not a crime!

[KA101]

Well OK, community service is legal, writing to newspapers is legal, but those are both extremely ineffective

Where are the thought police in all of this?

Thought police are 1984 Mode.  IMO they would randomly reveal Liberal safehouses (that Liberal you met with wasn't really Liberal!), alert the Conservative Response on site ops, and suddenly ambush Liberals on dates.  Where gun laws are Elite Liberal, possibly Death Penalty too (they just brainwash imprisoned Liberals).  Everything else is Arch-Conservative, and arrested Liberals are sentenced w/o trial.

I'd imagine that might be more difficult than Nightmare.

[Reelya]

One thing I was thinking of a while ago, correct me if this is now possible:

It would that it would be nice to be able to get your active liberals jobs: basically turn them into sleepers. For example if you recruit a "college student" they basically stay a "college student" forever once you recruit them, the same for "teenager". This breaks realism too much. A "teenager" should a blank slate that can develop into many different types of liberal.

Job title / description should be a dynamic thing, not static, and it would be nice to be able to train up someone then have them infiltrate a workplace, gain a job title etc. Thus, a complete overhaul for the career system would be nice, with promotions and the like, and this would play nicely into the idea that you can manipulate the system so that the President is a sleeper.

[Squeegy]

A sleeper president would be a much more direct way to ensure that laws you don't like are vetoed, instead of waiting for the game to naturally elect someone L+ on its own. And you could use sleeper congressmembers to introduce laws to directly affect the country's position on certain matters (whether or not they pass), again, instead of waiting for the game to do it on its own. I support the idea, LCS is all about taking change into your own hands.