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Author Topic: How to prevent Civil War (40.08)  (Read 951 times)

qurvax

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How to prevent Civil War (40.08)
« on: August 17, 2014, 11:14:21 am »

For two years everything went well - 92 dwarfs, small walled fortress, two squads of crossbowmen. Then one day everything went to hell. One of newly arrived cheese makers caught feint mood. After not finding some resources he went berserk and started to kick ppl around. I ordered my militia to shoot him. Then dunno what happen, dorfs went crazy and started fighting each other. Even children. Shortly military joined the rampage attacking each other as well.
Now my fortress looks like Doom 3. Dead body's everywhere, insane dorfs and maniacs hunting survivors. There is 30 out of 92 left still alive, mostly lucky enough to be wounded and delivered to the hospital beds, dieing slowly cause there is no one to feed them. WTF just happened? Why dorfs didn't stop fighting after original berserk was down? And how to prevent that in the feature?
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gaite

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Re: How to prevent Civil War (40.08)
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2014, 11:22:47 am »

Loyalty cascade due to a bug involving berserk dwarves. It's already fixed in the next version.

In the meantime, if you have a save from before the original berserk cheese-maker started fighting and can't avoid him going insane, try to wall him in before anyone else sees him. He should be safe to move once he's dead.
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qurvax

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Re: How to prevent Civil War (40.08)
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2014, 11:27:06 am »

Thanx for explaining. I don't have the save. If somebody survive that massacre, they will end up legendary ass-kickers i guess :D
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gaite

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Re: How to prevent Civil War (40.08)
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2014, 11:31:14 am »

Just a heads-up - there's a chance the surviving dwarves (and animals) could end up fighting any new migrants.
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quarague

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Re: How to prevent Civil War (40.08)
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2014, 04:50:32 am »

You experienced what is called a tantrum spiral. It is working mostly as intended and is one of the most common ways for fortresses to die. Essentially it starts out with some dwarf getting really unhappy (whether for a legitimate reason or not) and then doing something that makes another dwarf very unhappy. From there it cascades with exponential growth of unhappiness.
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SeelenJägerTee

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Re: How to prevent Civil War (40.08)
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2014, 06:41:38 am »

You experienced what is called a tantrum spiral. It is working mostly as intended and is one of the most common ways for fortresses to die. Essentially it starts out with some dwarf getting really unhappy (whether for a legitimate reason or not) and then doing something that makes another dwarf very unhappy. From there it cascades with exponential growth of unhappiness.
Very unlikely. You usually don't get a tantrum spiral from ONE dead dwarf.
The description of ordering the militia to kill the berserk dwarf and civil war after wards sounds much more like a loyalty cascade.
This doesn't mean that the loyalty cascade has a superimposed tantrums spiral on top of it due to the many deaths in the course of civil war.

Just a heads-up - there's a chance the surviving dwarves (and animals) could end up fighting any new migrants.
To avoid this draft any surviving dwarfs into the militia and station them somewhere (use burrows to get them somewhere) then wall them in.
Either let them create a secondary fortress or die off when new migrants have arrived.
That way you will have lost all of your original fortress, but at least the fortress lives on.
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SeelenJägerTee

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Re: How to prevent Civil War (40.08)
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2014, 06:42:55 am »

You experienced what is called a tantrum spiral. It is working mostly as intended and is one of the most common ways for fortresses to die. Essentially it starts out with some dwarf getting really unhappy (whether for a legitimate reason or not) and then doing something that makes another dwarf very unhappy. From there it cascades with exponential growth of unhappiness.
Very unlikely. You usually don't get a tantrum spiral from ONE dead dwarf.
The description of ordering the militia to kill the berserk dwarf and civil war afterwards sounds much more like a loyalty cascade.
This doesn't mean that the loyalty cascade has a superimposed tantrums spiral on top of it due to the many deaths in the course of civil war.

Just a heads-up - there's a chance the surviving dwarves (and animals) could end up fighting any new migrants.
To avoid this draft any surviving dwarfs into the militia and station them somewhere (use burrows to get them somewhere) then wall them in.
Either let them create a secondary fortress or die off when new migrants have arrived.
That way you will have lost all of your original fortress, but at least the fortress lives on.
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qurvax

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Re: How to prevent Civil War (40.08)
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2014, 07:47:05 am »

You experienced what is called a tantrum spiral. It is working mostly as intended and is one of the most common ways for fortresses to die. Essentially it starts out with some dwarf getting really unhappy (whether for a legitimate reason or not) and then doing something that makes another dwarf very unhappy. From there it cascades with exponential growth of unhappiness.

That wasn't tantrum spiral. Well, it actually happened, but much later. Problem is, that after the berserk was dead fight's continued. Which in turn resulted in more dead, more tantrums etc. If this
situation is because of tantrums, then first thing i would see would be two or more dorf's tantruming. But I saw them fighting each other instead.  Tantrums came afterwards.
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Quietust

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Re: How to prevent Civil War (40.08)
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2014, 07:55:22 am »

This is neither a tantrum spiral nor a loyalty cascade - it is a bug caused by friends and family defending the berserk dwarf (but still maintaining proper entity memberships). As noted, version 0.40.09 fixes this by making them realize that berserk dwarves are never worth defending.
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It's amazing how dwarves can make a stack of bones completely waterproof and magmaproof.
It's amazing how they can make an entire floodgate out of the bones of 2 cats.