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Author Topic: That which sleeps- Kickstarted!  (Read 372932 times)

Majestic7

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Re: That which sleeps- Kickstarting!
« Reply #555 on: September 29, 2014, 04:11:53 am »

Are religions always supernatural regarding their powers? I mean, if there was a modern scenario where mainstream religions had no active god or active powers, could this work, with the religions mainly having social and political pull?
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KingDinosaurGames

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Re: That which sleeps- Kickstarting!
« Reply #556 on: September 29, 2014, 04:17:39 am »

You can set the religions static in the scenario file or you can let them be dynamic - by setting them static you can make a pantheon (or one) of apathetic deities that merely give passive bonuses from their aspects, or you could even disable any and all bonuses and let the religious institutions be the sole representation of a the god.  This would accomplish what you are looking for, I imagine.
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Majestic7

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Re: That which sleeps- Kickstarting!
« Reply #557 on: September 29, 2014, 04:34:01 am »

That gives me a random thought - if you ever get around to multiplayer option, I hope it will include a fog of war regarding what Old One the other player is controlling. So you'd have to put your agents into investigating the same way as heroes do; maybe even reveal that Other Baddie to general public to make them do the fighting for you. This can already be put in as a mechanic with possible rival Old Ones in single player. This would match well with every Old One having a personal victory condition or a few to choose from among the pre-set universal victory conditions.

Anyway, I hope you guys can do the basic game ready first, then drop in extra features as sort of free DLCs, if it is sensible from programming point of view. I imagine having too many features to build at the same time can be overwhelming otherwise and people will be happy to experience the game earlier in a more basic format anyway.
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ERICdb

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Re: That which sleeps- Kickstarting!
« Reply #558 on: September 29, 2014, 04:37:42 am »

Bunch of questions:

-I want to know about the gods and the other races. Some things that I can think of are the following. Do they have a different pantheon, or they can share gods? If its the latter, do they TEND to stick with different kind of cults of the same religion, or do they treat them it in a different way? I was thinking about elves praising the gods in a different way than a human could do, and also different than an orch would do. Does this have something to do with the polytheistic, monotheistic, or shamanistic cultures? Can any type of race have any type of religious culture?

-I also want to know more about the implications of the gods and religion in the combat system and its relation with the heroes. There are 3 new classes, and I suppose that all of them will be able to fight. But the Inquisitor's description says something about being dangerous for other heroes. Does this mean that heroes also have their faith and can be chased because of it?
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ventuswings

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Re: That which sleeps- Kickstarting!
« Reply #559 on: September 29, 2014, 10:30:27 am »

One thing I am curious about is how personal relationships work. They seem like important part in making each hero AI life-like, and clearly there exist some system: people don't mind unification of the world via "friend" (before tweaking I guess) and concept of "nemesis" must exist for there to be vengeful adventurers.

Still, how nuanced are these relationships? Do they consist of hidden numerical values or simple discrete categories? Does each individual have relationship for every other individuals they meet? Can these be exploited (such as siblings or couples whose death would have extreme influence on psych of the other for better or worse, or option to give hero false target of revenge then exploit said emotion)? Will heroes with different personality/willpower react differently to actions of their "friend"? How does people end up like/dislike someone and is this predictable?

I apologize for many questions but this seemed to be the topic that has not been discussed down to the very fringe.
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Denim

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Re: That which sleeps- Kickstarting!
« Reply #560 on: September 29, 2014, 10:39:51 am »

Would going up the ascension path to godhood path cause your ancient evil to change into a divinity template? By this I mean will your powers and life force now be tied to the amount of faith you have stored up like other gods, or will you keep your ancient evil template where your power is dependent on your state of awakening? Or will you get both templates and you get a faith meter as well as awakening spheres?

Will the gods have personality traits like heroes do that you can use to your advantage? Could I trick a hero into stealing a sacred relic of a certain god who has the trait "vengeful" and just watch as that god sends his faithful to kill that hero with overwhelming force?
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Cthulhu

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Re: That which sleeps- Kickstarting!
« Reply #561 on: September 29, 2014, 11:29:01 am »

When you say challenging the divinities in the heavens, are there maps for that?
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KingDinosaurGames

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Re: That which sleeps- Kickstarting!
« Reply #562 on: September 29, 2014, 11:55:35 am »

That gives me a random thought - if you ever get around to multiplayer option, I hope it will include a fog of war regarding what Old One the other player is controlling. So you'd have to put your agents into investigating the same way as heroes do; maybe even reveal that Other Baddie to general public to make them do the fighting for you. This can already be put in as a mechanic with possible rival Old Ones in single player. This would match well with every Old One having a personal victory condition or a few to choose from among the pre-set universal victory conditions.

Anyway, I hope you guys can do the basic game ready first, then drop in extra features as sort of free DLCs, if it is sensible from programming point of view. I imagine having too many features to build at the same time can be overwhelming otherwise and people will be happy to experience the game earlier in a more basic format anyway.

Our intent is to do the base game first, have that fully released via Early Access - and then begin to introduce any stretch goals that we may hit after Gods and Religion.

When you say challenging the divinities in the heavens, are there maps for that?

No maps for challenging the divinities, like many elements of the game it will be handled abstractly - it's really the only way we can put this many features in the game.

Would going up the ascension path to godhood path cause your ancient evil to change into a divinity template? By this I mean will your powers and life force now be tied to the amount of faith you have stored up like other gods, or will you keep your ancient evil template where your power is dependent on your state of awakening? Or will you get both templates and you get a faith meter as well as awakening spheres?

Will the gods have personality traits like heroes do that you can use to your advantage? Could I trick a hero into stealing a sacred relic of a certain god who has the trait "vengeful" and just watch as that god sends his faithful to kill that hero with overwhelming force?

As far as how the Aspects will affect your Old One, we originally designed it to augment your role not for you to begin to collect Faith as a god might.  We wanted the lost prayers of the people to represent their mistaken faith in your deception, not a valid (if terrible) choice in a new god.

Gods do have personality traits, which are also culturally linked, and the scenario you mention is a perfect example of this.

One thing I am curious about is how personal relationships work. They seem like important part in making each hero AI life-like, and clearly there exist some system: people don't mind unification of the world via "friend" (before tweaking I guess) and concept of "nemesis" must exist for there to be vengeful adventurers.

Still, how nuanced are these relationships? Do they consist of hidden numerical values or simple discrete categories? Does each individual have relationship for every other individuals they meet? Can these be exploited (such as siblings or couples whose death would have extreme influence on psych of the other for better or worse, or option to give hero false target of revenge then exploit said emotion)? Will heroes with different personality/willpower react differently to actions of their "friend"? How does people end up like/dislike someone and is this predictable?

I apologize for many questions but this seemed to be the topic that has not been discussed down to the very fringe.

Hidden numerical values which then express themselves in qualitative terms if certain thresholds are reached.  Everyone who bumps into someone else gets a base impression, modified by how their traits rub each other - questing together successfully tends to make adventurers more friendly towards each other and being a part of something frustrating tends to lower their relationship.  The Heroes absolutely act differently depending on the relationship they have with others, loyal Heroes will never abandon a friend and will come to their aid if in trouble, vengeful heroes will seek retribution on the Agent who slays or cripples a friend, etc. 

Bunch of questions:

-I want to know about the gods and the other races. Some things that I can think of are the following. Do they have a different pantheon, or they can share gods? If its the latter, do they TEND to stick with different kind of cults of the same religion, or do they treat them it in a different way? I was thinking about elves praising the gods in a different way than a human could do, and also different than an orch would do. Does this have something to do with the polytheistic, monotheistic, or shamanistic cultures? Can any type of race have any type of religious culture?

-I also want to know more about the implications of the gods and religion in the combat system and its relation with the heroes. There are 3 new classes, and I suppose that all of them will be able to fight. But the Inquisitor's description says something about being dangerous for other heroes. Does this mean that heroes also have their faith and can be chased because of it?


Religion is based on culture, so Races with strong cultural unity will tend to have their God(s) and their God(s) alone - but there is nothing that explicitly prohibits sharing gods with another race.   It's an interesting idea to allow the Races to have their own 'method' of expressing faith, and having religions/cults reflect that - but it isn't currently in the design, and I think it might be an over-complication of the system.

Absolutely - it's important to note that Heroes don't always do "Heroic" things, they do what their Archetype AI and interests point them towards.  For an inquisitor, if he is not pursuing an actual heretic of the faith he may find a local Hero of another faith and persecute him.  So yes, Heroes and their faith will definitely be an important part of the game if Religions and Gods are enabled.
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rylen

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Re: That which sleeps- Kickstarting!
« Reply #563 on: September 29, 2014, 01:38:06 pm »

As far as how the Aspects will affect your Old One, we originally designed it to augment your role not for you to begin to collect Faith as a god might.  We wanted the lost prayers of the people to represent their mistaken faith in your deception, not a valid (if terrible) choice in a new god.

How hard would it be to mod a fallen god Old One who is greatly dependent on mewling supplicants?
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KingDinosaurGames

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Re: That which sleeps- Kickstarting!
« Reply #564 on: September 29, 2014, 02:03:08 pm »

As far as how the Aspects will affect your Old One, we originally designed it to augment your role not for you to begin to collect Faith as a god might.  We wanted the lost prayers of the people to represent their mistaken faith in your deception, not a valid (if terrible) choice in a new god.

How hard would it be to mod a fallen god Old One who is greatly dependent on mewling supplicants?

Relatively straightforward - we have passive modifiers for Old Ones that can adjust the rate of their Power increasing.  Attach it to faith and your Old One will not rise without enough people calling his name, knowing or not what it is they're calling for.
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Zangi

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Re: That which sleeps- Kickstarting!
« Reply #565 on: September 29, 2014, 03:13:12 pm »

You said earlier on that there are mercenary type heroes.  Would your agents be able to hire them on?  For shady work?  Or non-suspicious looking work(at first and second glance), like a bodyguard or whatever have you?
Though, I guess some of em won't be willing to work with some of your allies/minions, no matter how much you pay em I reckon.  And there may be some danger of them having a revelation and gaining a conscious if you do too much shady/horrible things with em?
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KingDinosaurGames

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Re: That which sleeps- Kickstarting!
« Reply #566 on: September 29, 2014, 04:57:53 pm »

Mercenary Companies (as in armies and elite units) can be hired by Agents pretty straightforward, as for Mercenary Heroes they can't be hired directly by the Agent, instead you would need to manipulate a Leader to make a quest that would appeal to them or just set up the right circumstances where the AI would make that decision on their own (generally under false pretenses).
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Jalak

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Re: That which sleeps- Kickstarting!
« Reply #567 on: September 29, 2014, 08:44:11 pm »

So, what's the ETA on the next video?

Also, do agents and heroes fight armies as well, or do they not interact with each other that way?
« Last Edit: September 29, 2014, 08:51:58 pm by Jalak »
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KingDinosaurGames

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Re: That which sleeps- Kickstarting!
« Reply #568 on: September 29, 2014, 09:12:45 pm »

We have two videos just about ready - one is going up tonight the other we will be posting on Wednesday.

Agents and Heroes while going about their business ignore armies, but they can join with an army to participate in battles.
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Jalak

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Re: That which sleeps- Kickstarting!
« Reply #569 on: September 29, 2014, 10:07:54 pm »

So if I had an agent doing some sort of ritual and an army suddenly showed up, they can't actually "interrupt" what I'm doing no matter what it is, save for their presence presumably increasing order, hence making it take longer for me to actually complete it?

Also, congrats on the staff pick for your kickstarter. Don't know what it does, but congrats all the same.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2014, 12:44:03 am by Jalak »
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