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Author Topic: The Let's go back to Iraq, now without WMDs Thread. About the IS(IS) threat.  (Read 203613 times)

martinuzz

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Starving out the entrenched enemy, isn't that still a valid tactic?  Especially when you don't have the means to get at em easily?
No, it's most definitly against the Geneva concention.
Either way, I'd totally show em how much food I have too...  if I'm trying to convince anyone in there to rat out/surrender the enemy combatants.  (Though, suicide bombers would be a huge problem in that scenario...)
That's a pretty sociopathic thing to say
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martinuzz

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Also, apparently Iran has seized two American boats and their 10 crew that it claims violated their territorial waters, but has pledged to free the sailors. Not sure about the boats.
The Pentagon confirmed the release of the crew, and their boats today, by now they have allegedly been reunited with the 5th fleet in Bahrein.
According to debriefing, one of the seized ships suffered from technical problems with their navigation system, ending them up in Iranian waters.
The Iranian minister of forgeign affairs has stated that the US has apologized for entering Iranian waters.

The Navy has stated that there's no signs of any maltreatment of the crewmembers.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2016, 07:53:41 am by martinuzz »
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Friendly and polite reminder for optimists: Hope is a finite resource

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Zangi

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Starving out the entrenched enemy, isn't that still a valid tactic?  Especially when you don't have the means to get at em easily?
No, it's most definitly against the Geneva concention.
Either way, I'd totally show em how much food I have too...  if I'm trying to convince anyone in there to rat out/surrender the enemy combatants.  (Though, suicide bombers would be a huge problem in that scenario...)
That's a pretty sociopathic thing to say
My other go to solutions are probably not as great, but I don't know what sort of toys the Syrian/Hezbollah troops have at their disposal....

I'd think it would be more pragmatic, but yea, reckon it could be considered that too.  If you will grant me amnesty, make me your Commander.  >.>

Also, previous post about enemy combatants taking aid food.  Can't have nice things.
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Loud Whispers

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No, it's most definitly against the Geneva concention.
No, deliberate starving of civilians is outlawed. Starving armed hostile combatants is fine and if you're attacking a city full of them, that civilians are within does not make it illegal.

That's a pretty sociopathic thing to say
You seem pretty surprised that winning wars requires killing people / making them so demoralized they surrender

Morrigi

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Loud Whispers

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/pol/ was right again. https://www.foia.state.gov/searchapp/DOCUMENTS/HRCEmail_DecWebClearedMeta/31-C1/DOC_0C05779612/C05779612.pdf
Quote
A high ranking official on the National Libyan Council states that factions have developed within it. In part this
reflects the cultivation by France in particular of clients among the rebels. General Abdelfateh Younis is the
leading figure closest to the French, who are believed to have made payments of an unknown amount to him.
Younis has told others on the NLC that the French have promised they will provide military trainers and arms. So
far the men and materiel have not made an appearance. Instead, a few "risk assessment analysts" wielding
clipboards have come and gone. Jabril, Jalil and others are impatient. It is understood that France has clear
economic interests at stake. Sarkozy's occasional emissary, the intellectual self-promoter Bernard Henri-Levy, is
considered by those in the NLC who have dealt with him as a semi-useful, semi-joke figure.
2.
Rumors swept the NLC upper.
 echelon this week that Qaddafi may be dead or maybe not.
3.
Qaddafi has nearly bottomless financial resources to continue indefinitely, according to the latest report we have
received:
On April 2, 2011 sources with access to advisors to Salt al-Islam Qaddafi stated in strictest confidence that while the
freezing of Libya's foreign bank accounts presents Muammar Qaddafi with serious challenges, his ability to equip and
maintain his armed forces and intelligence services remains intact. According to sensitive information available to this
these individuals, Qaddafi's government holds 143 tons of gold, and a similar amount in silver. During late March, 2011
these stocks were moved to SABHA (south west in the direction of the Libyan border with Niger and Chad); taken from
the vaults of the Libyan Central Bank in Tripoli.
This gold was accumulated prior to the current rebellion and was intended to be used to establish a pan-African currency
based on the Libyan golden Dinar. This plan was designed to provide the Francophone African Countries with an
alternative to the French.franc (CFA).
(Source Comment: According to knowledgeable individuals this quantity of gold and silver is valued at more than $7
billion. French intelligence officers discovered this plan shortly after the current rebellion began, and this was one of the
factors that influenced President Nicolas Sarkozy's decision to commit France to the attack on Libya. According to these
individuals Sarkozy's plans are driven by the following issues:
a. A desire to gain a greater share of Libya oil production,
b.
Increase French influence in North Africa,
UNCLASSIFIED U.S. Department of State Case No. F-2014-20439 Doc No. C05779612 Date: 12/31/2015
UNCLASSIFIED U.S. Department of State Case No. F-2014-20439 Doc No. C05779612 Date: 12/31/2015
c.
Improve his intemai political situation in France,
d.
Provide the French military with an opportunity to reassert its position in the world,
e.
Address the concern of his advisors over Qaddafi's long term plans to supplant France as the dominant power in
Francophone Africa)
Which explains why the coalition left despite there not being a viable government left in place, all of the real objectives had already been accomplished

Loud Whispers

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So a greedy European state wanted their current/former colonies money.....
More to do with maintaining status quo than taking more

When the Libyan war hit /pol/ they correctly gauged that this was about Gaddafi's efforts to create a pan-African dollar, but they wrongly suspected the driving force was US fears of the US dollar being undermined, because nobody suspects the French and in hindsight the US dollar is so strong no one could really compete with it yet, Obama wouldn't authorize such an unnecessary war for the USA (probably)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
For France that pan-african currency would be a different story
The CFA Franc is used by many West African and Central African countries that were former French colonies, or else had close ties with French colonies
The Franc offered stable currency that foreign investors wouldn't get their knickers in a twist about since it was backed by the French treasury, but it also meant that the individual African nations couldn't set their own interest rates or exchange rates, with effects similar to how the southern Europeans are being bent over backwards by Germany because they no longer control their own currency. With the Franc no longer being used in France itself the CFA Franc is now pegged to the Euro, effectively making West Africa fall under the European Union's hegemony. People call this neo-Imperialism, but if anything it is a rather classical one, before the Imperial powers annexed anything in the 20th century they first dominated economically in the 19th and all before that. A civil war in Libya would be a win-win scenario, as either Gaddafi's gold and oil reserves would be used up making a pan-African alternative currency unfeasible without a sizeable backing from Libya's treasury, or they'd win and Gaddafi's ambitions would die with Gaddafi

Plus this was during the period where all the former great powers were basically reevaluating their lives in the midst of America's decline from unrivaled freedom to a world where everyone's pushing everyone, same way as the Japanese and Chinese have exerted themselves in the Pacific, the Russians in Eastern Europe, the French in West Africa, the British around the Red Sea and central Asia, the Turks around the Aegean and Asia Minor, as well as all the new great powers rolling on and deciding they want in on this too, Iran, Saudi, Israel e.t.c. and the USA of course pretty much everywhere, I bring this up because I'm pretty certain this must've factored into Sarkozy's decision making process considering he involved France in the Arab spring, but mainly ones that had historical ties to France (Tunisia, Libya, Syria) as opposed to ones like Egypt or Iraq

Vilanat

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So, Sid Blumenthal expects us to believe France went to war over a potential currency backed by a total 7 billion USD in gold?
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Morrigi

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So, Sid Blumenthal expects us to believe France went to war over a potential currency backed by a total 7 billion USD in gold?
Africa as a whole has significantly more than $7 billion in gold.
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Loud Whispers

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So, Sid Blumenthal expects us to believe France went to war over a potential currency backed by a total 7 billion USD in gold?
Africa as a whole has significantly more than $7 billion in gold.
That and the $42B of low-cost oil Libya was raking in yearly at 2010 - excluding any other contributions from any other African state to boot, though recent Saudi shenanigans probably would've gutted Gaddafi's ambition today had the Francs not yesterday

Vilanat

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Africa's entire gold reserves amounts to less than a tenth of the EU's annual import volume worth so the Euro/CFA Franc was hardly at risk from that imaginary currency nobody ever took seriously. Heck, even Libya's entire oil/gas reserves isn't enough for that.

Mr. Sid got a little confused. The Libyan gold reserves were not worrying by itself, nor that supposed currency. The existence of the gold reserves only meant that gaddafi could survive longer the uprising and thus needlessly prolong the disruption of the Libyan oil industry. Gaddafi was already gone before NATO intervened, it was just a matter of when.
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Sheb

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Yeah, while I'm not fan of Sarkozy, I really doubt that currency issues was seriously what pushed him, rather than his low polls at home.
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martinuzz

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President Xi of China was the first national leader today, to visit Iran, since the sanctions were lifted.
The Chinese president and the Iranian president signed a broad strategic pact today for a term of 25 years, which includes reopening the old silk routes, getting Chinese aid for peaceful nuclear reactors, and also, China and Iran will start cooperating closely to find a solution to terrorism and extremisim in Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan and Jemen.

tl;dr  Saudi Arabia is fucked
« Last Edit: January 23, 2016, 01:31:42 pm by martinuzz »
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Friendly and polite reminder for optimists: Hope is a finite resource

We can ­disagree and still love each other, ­unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist - James Baldwin

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