Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4

Author Topic: What's the Ideal Armour Setup?  (Read 6772 times)

martinuzz

  • Bay Watcher
  • High dwarf
    • View Profile
Re: What's the Ideal Armour Setup?
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2014, 06:59:09 am »

I create a new uniform for all dwarf squads which includes

Metal Breastplate
Metal Mailshirt
Metal Helm
Metal Greaves
Metal Gauntlets
Metal High Boots
Leather Cloak
Shield
Same, except instead of leather cloaks, silk cloak, cause apparently silk offers better protection value.
Why cloaks? They protect the face. Helmets don't.

As for the breastplate, I usually wait with adding that to the uniform until the dwarves got at least proficient armor skill, and some strenght boost from their combat proficiency gains.
Armor use trains reasonably fast while sparring, no danger rooms needed.

About shields. I see some people use wooden shields. I still use steel shields, because AFAIK, not only can shields be used to block, apart from that, they do also count as armor piece, for I think hands and lower arm, someone correct me if I am wrong.
Logged
Friendly and polite reminder for optimists: Hope is a finite resource

We can ­disagree and still love each other, ­unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist - James Baldwin

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73719.msg1830479#msg1830479

Mlamlah

  • Bay Watcher
  • The Androgynous Nerd
    • View Profile
Re: What's the Ideal Armour Setup?
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2014, 08:15:27 am »

From what i can tell wooden and metal shields are just as effective as one another for defensive purposes, except wood is lighter and less valuable, which to me makes it ideal. It is worth considering that metal shields are more effective at shield bashing though.
Logged

Nasty

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: What's the Ideal Armour Setup?
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2014, 09:46:37 am »

Metal makes it better for bashing, but wood will still block anything and is lighter.

Mail protects the neck and face, not the helmet.
Logged

Girlinhat

  • Bay Watcher
  • [PREFSTRING:large ears]
    • View Profile
Re: What's the Ideal Armour Setup?
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2014, 10:25:41 am »

Metal makes it better for bashing, but wood will still block anything and is lighter.

Mail protects the neck and face, not the helmet.
Copper is the best material for shield bashing, as it's the heaviest metal for shields (aside from artifacts, which would be platinum).  Featherwood is also the best material for shields in general, as it's the lightest wood available, and will encumber the dwarf the least, retaining their speed.  It doesn't really matter though, I usually just give them a shield to match their armor material.

A mail shirt protects the upper arms, upper body (rib cage), lower body (stomach), and upper legs.  A mail shirt is the only vanilla piece of metal armor that will protect the upper arms.

A cloak protects the mouth, nose, and ears, which a helmet does not.

lianopbs

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: What's the Ideal Armour Setup?
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2014, 10:37:10 am »

are robe and dresses just as good as cloaks ? they do about have even more coverage then cloaks in the raws.



Logged

Deepblade

  • Bay Watcher
  • Tholtarmid
    • View Profile
Re: What's the Ideal Armour Setup?
« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2014, 11:38:38 am »

are robe and dresses just as good as cloaks ? they do about have even more coverage then cloaks in the raws.

The wiki has a list of maximum coverage in the Armor Section.
Logged
Deepblade's Standardized Creature Parts, for when you're pissed about all the different types of animal products there are.

dbay

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: What's the Ideal Armour Setup?
« Reply #21 on: August 03, 2014, 08:46:49 pm »

You can wear three layers of mail shirts AND a breastplate, so you don't need to either/or (if you only could pick one, I'd pick the mail shirt because it gets more coverage).
As for greaves vs leggings, I go with greaves, because high boots (chain) cover up to the knees and mail shirt (chain) covers down to the knees, so with greaves, the legs get mail and plate protection vs. 2 layers of chain.

krenshala

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: What's the Ideal Armour Setup?
« Reply #22 on: August 03, 2014, 10:01:00 pm »

I know some of you are aware, but for the rest, don't forget that DF checks each layer of clothing/armor when the target takes a hit.  It only displays the layer that blocks the shot, or the last layer to fail to block, when it gives the combat report entry.  If the cloak stops it, it never gets to mail or brestplate.  If your sock stops the attack, that means it got through your boot/shoe first.
Logged
Quote from: Haspen
Quote from: phoenixuk
Zepave Dawnhogs the Butterfly of Vales the Marsh Titan ... was taken out by a single novice axedwarf and his pet war kitten. Long Live Domas Etasastesh Adilloram, slayer of the snow butterfly!
Doesn't quite have the ring of heroics to it...
Mother: "...and after the evil snow butterfly was defeated, Domas and his kitten lived happily ever after!"
Kids: "Yaaaay!"

Berserkenstein

  • Bay Watcher
  • A giant humanoid monster with the head of a bull.
    • View Profile
Re: What's the Ideal Armour Setup?
« Reply #23 on: August 03, 2014, 10:11:26 pm »

I know some of you are aware, but for the rest, don't forget that DF checks each layer of clothing/armor when the target takes a hit.  It only displays the layer that blocks the shot, or the last layer to fail to block, when it gives the combat report entry.  If the cloak stops it, it never gets to mail or brestplate.  If your sock stops the attack, that means it got through your boot/shoe first.

In my experience having tons of layers is probably more of a detriment than a benefit.  It takes more time and resources and makes your dwarf sluggish if they aren't skilled armor users and if they are, then they won't need tons of armor anyway.  I rather have them be able to attack earlier and more often.

I haven't done the maximum layers or used danger rooms since 31.25.  I find it is generally better to just get armor coverage everywhere.

I've always used the following armor coverage and have rarely had any injuries using bronze, iron, or steel armor:

1 breastplate
1 mail shirt
1 cloak
1 greave
1 pair of trousers
1 pair of gauntlets
1 pair of mittens
1 pair of high boots
1 helm
1 hood
1 shield

Bare minimum coverage while metal industry is still new or if iron is nonexistent and I gotta buy from caravan or murder invaders:

1 mail shirt
1 cloak
1 helm
1 hood
1 high boots
1 pair of gauntlets
1 pair of mittens
1 shield

Leather gear for peasants or fast marksdwarves:

1 leather armor
1 cloak
1 leather helm
1 hood
1 pair of leather leggings
1 pair of trousers
1 pair of mittens
1 pair of leather high boots
1 leather or elven shield
Marksdwarves get a wood or bone crossbow
Peasants get copper war hammers which are pretty effective for how dirt cheap they are, especially in the new version.

I haven't allowed my dwarves socks since there used to be the 1 boot bug from awhile ago and I've never noticed anything bad happen to start using socks again.

As far as I've noticed, the difference between cloth and leather is rather small, from my anectdotal evidence of masterwork rope reed cloak deflections occurring as much as leather cloaks do. 

If it won't be deflected by cloth, leather is probably not gonna stop it either.  The only time I prefer leather over cloth is when I use all leather armor without gauntlets.

I also melt all armor that is not at least exceptional quality and reforge it until it is exceptional or better.
Logged

krenshala

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: What's the Ideal Armour Setup?
« Reply #24 on: August 03, 2014, 11:02:37 pm »

Oh, I agree about excessive layering just making it easier to hit (if not hurt) your dwarves. I just wanted to make sure everyone was aware that was how it worked.  Your set up looks almost exactly the same as mine, by the way.
Logged
Quote from: Haspen
Quote from: phoenixuk
Zepave Dawnhogs the Butterfly of Vales the Marsh Titan ... was taken out by a single novice axedwarf and his pet war kitten. Long Live Domas Etasastesh Adilloram, slayer of the snow butterfly!
Doesn't quite have the ring of heroics to it...
Mother: "...and after the evil snow butterfly was defeated, Domas and his kitten lived happily ever after!"
Kids: "Yaaaay!"

Lormax

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: What's the Ideal Armour Setup?
« Reply #25 on: August 04, 2014, 08:18:47 pm »

I know some of you are aware, but for the rest, don't forget that DF checks each layer of clothing/armor when the target takes a hit.  It only displays the layer that blocks the shot, or the last layer to fail to block, when it gives the combat report entry.  If the cloak stops it, it never gets to mail or brestplate.  If your sock stops the attack, that means it got through your boot/shoe first.

In my experience having tons of layers is probably more of a detriment than a benefit.  It takes more time and resources and makes your dwarf sluggish if they aren't skilled armor users and if they are, then they won't need tons of armor anyway.  I rather have them be able to attack earlier and more often.

I haven't done the maximum layers or used danger rooms since 31.25.  I find it is generally better to just get armor coverage everywhere.

I've always used the following armor coverage and have rarely had any injuries using bronze, iron, or steel armor:

1 breastplate
1 mail shirt
1 cloak
1 greave
1 pair of trousers
1 pair of gauntlets
1 pair of mittens
1 pair of high boots
1 helm
1 hood
1 shield

Bare minimum coverage while metal industry is still new or if iron is nonexistent and I gotta buy from caravan or murder invaders:

1 mail shirt
1 cloak
1 helm
1 hood
1 high boots
1 pair of gauntlets
1 pair of mittens
1 shield

Leather gear for peasants or fast marksdwarves:

1 leather armor
1 cloak
1 leather helm
1 hood
1 pair of leather leggings
1 pair of trousers
1 pair of mittens
1 pair of leather high boots
1 leather or elven shield
Marksdwarves get a wood or bone crossbow
Peasants get copper war hammers which are pretty effective for how dirt cheap they are, especially in the new version.

I haven't allowed my dwarves socks since there used to be the 1 boot bug from awhile ago and I've never noticed anything bad happen to start using socks again.

As far as I've noticed, the difference between cloth and leather is rather small, from my anectdotal evidence of masterwork rope reed cloak deflections occurring as much as leather cloaks do. 

If it won't be deflected by cloth, leather is probably not gonna stop it either.  The only time I prefer leather over cloth is when I use all leather armor without gauntlets.

I also melt all armor that is not at least exceptional quality and reforge it until it is exceptional or better.


How do you get peasants to equip any armor at all?  I have no clue how to do that.
Logged

krenshala

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: What's the Ideal Armour Setup?
« Reply #26 on: August 04, 2014, 08:59:07 pm »

They have to be part of a squad, and set to wear their uniform while not-active.
Logged
Quote from: Haspen
Quote from: phoenixuk
Zepave Dawnhogs the Butterfly of Vales the Marsh Titan ... was taken out by a single novice axedwarf and his pet war kitten. Long Live Domas Etasastesh Adilloram, slayer of the snow butterfly!
Doesn't quite have the ring of heroics to it...
Mother: "...and after the evil snow butterfly was defeated, Domas and his kitten lived happily ever after!"
Kids: "Yaaaay!"

thepaan

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: What's the Ideal Armour Setup?
« Reply #27 on: August 25, 2014, 06:01:46 pm »

A cloak protects the mouth, nose, and ears, which a helmet does not.

Ah! So, that's why my dwarves all have severed noses and ears, and are missing all their teeth...
Logged

khearn

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: What's the Ideal Armour Setup?
« Reply #28 on: August 25, 2014, 06:55:13 pm »

As mentioned above, dwarves will wear the most valuable piece of armor available for a given slot. This does not mean the best. They will happily wear a ≡«☼copper mail shirt☼»≡ instead of a -steel mail shirt- if the copper is more expensive. It's mainly only an issue with stuff you've bought from caravans (unless you make a habit of decorating crappy armor), but it's something to watch out for.

   Keith
Logged
Have them killed. Nothing solves a problem quite as effectively as simply having it killed.

Urist McShire

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: What's the Ideal Armour Setup?
« Reply #29 on: August 25, 2014, 07:10:01 pm »

My ideal armour setup is as follows:

1 x breastplate
1 x mail shirt (occasionally 2x)
1 x cloak (yarn or leather, simply because I like having wool cloaks)
1 x leather robes (just to add one more layer of protection)
1 x pair of gauntlets
1 x helm
1 x pair of high boots
1 x pair of greaves
1 x wooden shield
1 x weapon

Offers full protection for the dwarves from just about any attack, and I even have my marksdwarves wear it. Since the update to v.40.XX it's become a lot more effective to just have them train and spar, and even your marksdwarves will gain armour user skill, which helps in case the enemy closes on them so they aren't so squishy.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4