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[Hatty Hattington]

So before I embarked I checked the neighboring civs. I was at war with teh evil goblins

But then after one year of playing I realized I was at peace with Goblins and Kobolds!
Does anyone know how to start a war with goblins or kobolds. if not I guess I will punch a human diplomat or something  (Or build an epic army to battle the demons! )

Btw I am playing on 34.11


Hmm battling demons sure sounds cool...

[Meneth]

IIRC, if you're at peace with the goblins, they'll send caravans, which you can kill to tick them off. I don't think kobolds send caravans, though, so you're probably out of luck with them.

[Iamblichos]

I would avoid goblin caravans at all cost, in the same way I avoid cocaine.  What if you like it?

Seriously... if someone brought you a stack of *prepared elf tripe[5]*, how could you NOT trade with them like honorable sentients?  Better to never know.

[Dzedajus]

I would avoid goblin caravans at all cost, in the same way I avoid cocaine.  What if you like it?

Seriously... if someone brought you a stack of *prepared elf tripe[5]*, how could you NOT trade with them like honorable sentients?  Better to never know.

This is actually not cool. There was one post explaining how elves are the most hardcore civs not interested in flimsy wood crafts and that they only like ROCK AND METAL crafts.

[locustgate]

I would avoid goblin caravans at all cost, in the same way I avoid cocaine.  What if you like it?

Seriously... if someone brought you a stack of *prepared elf tripe[5]*, how could you NOT trade with them like honorable sentients?  Better to never know.

This is actually not cool. There was one post explaining how elves are the most hardcore civs not interested in flimsy wood crafts and that they only like ROCK AND METAL crafts.

EXACTLY....they could only get more metal if they wore rock or metal armor..... Anyone else now have an image of an elven metal band.

[wierd]

No-- That isnt it at all!  It isn't that elves dont like wood-- It's the exact opposite, coupled with an absurd dose of neurosis!

See, Elves have this "Self loathing" neurotic complex:

They are sentient, industrious beings, who try so very hard not to be, and suffer self-loathing as a consequence.

They revere the instinctual, almost autonomous characteristics of nature and natural systems as high prime ideals, which is why trees are seen as the ultimate expression of perfection. They employ a magical/special means of wood collection/crafting, because they HATE industrial processes, because they are "unnatural"-- Nevermind the cogitative dissonance that is required to hold this viewpoint, however. (The actual development of this magical methodology is itself a technological innovation, and is itself unnatural. I seriously doubt that any tree anywhere is going to start magically sprouting kitchen utensils and whole pieces of wooden armor all on its own. Sorry elves, that just isnt natural. Telling yourselves it is does not make it so. If you really want to think about the actual consequences of this development, you went from cutting off limbs from the tree, which is known to actually improve tree health in many circumstances when performed sensibly-- see for instance, Pruning, which simulates natural limb loss in a more controlled manner-- to actually ENSLAVING the tree, forcing it to grow in unnatural ways which we CAN PROVE it would NOT do on its own, just so you can feel better about yourselves. Which of us is the monster here again?)

Because trees are their mental model of perfect natural beauty, anything fashioned from them by "Crude industrial processes" is an anathema. It isn't that they don't value wood-- it's the absolute opposite-- wood is too holy and sacred to DARE be used. Instead, they choose to self-punish themselves with goods they consider to be of inferior value, as self-chastisement of their requirements for unnatural utensils and objects. "I hate that I need tools to survive, so I will outfit myself with ones made of materials I find less valuable in a futile and neurotic act of catharsis! That'll teach me to have to rely on tools!"

Basically, Elves are unabashed neurotics with an unrealistic view of what nature actually is, seeking to deny their own actual natures to be more like this unreal and projected ideal, engaging in self-destructive, irrational, and neurotic behaviors and (mental gymnastics to justify them), and getting bent out of shape when other races don't do the same thing.

Goblins are FAR more "Natural" than Elves ever even DREAMED of being.

[Edmus]

I am shocked and disgusted by you Elf sympathisers. Next thing you'll be living in above ground fortresses and caring for orphans! I don't know about you, but it's spring and I've got caravans to burn.

[therahedwig]

... And here I was thinking Elves just didn't like cutting down trees, don't know how to make things from rock, and therefore love dwarven crafts.

[Witty]

IIRC, if you're at peace with the goblins, they'll send caravans, which you can kill to tick them off. I don't think kobolds send caravans, though, so you're probably out of luck with them.

Not true. At least not in vanilla. You're almost always at peace with goblins and kobolds, that's just how worldgen plays out (may be diffrent for the new version, not entirely sure). You'll still get kobold thieves since they have the UTTERANCES tag, which means their language is too primitive to communicate with other civs. And you'll also still get goblin ambushes and seiges since they are babysnatchers, and all babysnatcher civs are at war with non-BSs, regardless of what their actual diplomatic standing is.

[locustgate]

I am shocked and disgusted by you Elf sympathisers. Next thing you'll be living in above ground fortresses and caring for orphans! I don't know about you, but it's spring and I've got caravans to burn.

Of course I care for orphans how else am I going to bait my traps?

[BoredVirulence]

Before you know it, we'll be building skylights so our underground halls can experience, daylight! *Shudders*
Personally, the only good way for a dwarf to experience sunlight is by puking his guts all over an elf as he slams his axe through its skull. We really only let woodcutters and hunters stay because they offer useful goods, food and wood, aren't fond of elves, and provide early warning systems, "Hey, we haven't seen that woodcutter in a week, better check for a goblin ambush..."

Nontraditional elf sympathizers. Before you know it, we'll have dwarves asking for beds imported by elves! I only await the invention of the metal bed because it offers my dwarves a true dwarven sleep during the months they aren't sleeping on the corpses of our enemies. Also, the other dwarves who don't get the glory of passing out on their enemies remains after a battles hard work will get a more dwarven existence, something these sympathizers truly need...

[Torrenal]

In my current game, the goblin sieges consist entirely of all-elf squads.

I try not to explain it.  I just load the trap cages and empty them out at the archery range...smiling the whole while.

In a funny twist, my civ in the current game is populated mostly by goblins...
Interesting times we live in... interesting times...

//Torrenal

[Shadow_Hornet]

In a old fort of mine I was well on my way to making a underground hall that had daylight.

[Meph]

I like elves.