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[Imp]

That's different.  My death there was going to be a huge boon to the town(although my survival even more so), and I did die eventually (heh the scum thought they could frame me).

Also, yes, I am fed up with mafia.  I'm playing partially because a couple of people have told I should and partly because even though I'm done, part of me doesn't want to give it up, because it's been fun in the past.  That's not to say I won't play well: I will.  I'm just sick and tired of playing the game.  Or any game, for that matter.

What do you still like about Mafia?

What did you once like about Mafia?

[Cheeetar]

Tiruin. Why exactly did you claim? Would you please explain how you believed your claim would help town? Until such a time as you've explained this, I feel my vote is best used on you.

Spoiler: Imp (click to show/hide)

Cheeetar:

In fact, in case it wasn't obvious enough already that I am asking everybody:
Everybody, do you think a claimed miller lynch would be the best choice on Day 1, in the absence of any strong scumtells, or would a more random vote work better?

Ehh, I usually won't random vote.  In general, I vote for reasons and my vote usually means I want them hung; rarely it means I want their attention and think I haven't been getting it previously; maybe someday I'll find another reason to vote for people. (Nerjin for re-election, woo!)

Is a miller vote the best possible use of a vote D1, in this game specifically?  If I decide it is, everyone will know, because that's how I'll be voting.  At this time, I don't have enough information to feel ready to vote.

Cheeetar:  How much time to play this game do you have?  Would you say your posts need to be rushed, or are you able to relax and enjoy this game?   Also, I'm pretty new to Mafia and I've never played in a game with a Miller before.  But millers -are- Town, are they not?  And in a BYOR, a miller may have useful powers that are helpful to Town.  Am I wrong about this possibility?  Can you explain why miller dead, even if miller-is-milller-not-Scum is the best possible lynch for Town for this day?

Nope- not the best use of Day 1. But it's a great way to get people talking. I think the conundrum presented to the investigator is troublesome, and to lynch Tiruin we wouldn't have to worry about the miller possibly being a scum at all- it's better than a random townie dying, in my opinion.

As to my posts possibly being 'rushed'- I suppose that's just how I play. I'd like to infect the game with my enthusiasm for posting, if at all possible. I'll have plenty of time to post, and it is entirely possible I will annoy some people with the quantity of my posts.

Spoiler: Jack A T (click to show/hide)

Cheeetar: Even with some sort of way for millers to know when they've been acted on, why should they create strategies that depend on them being online earlier in a new day than theoretical investigators?  What makes that better than just being transparent about the misinspection issue and making sure that the small chance of a wasted inspection becomes a 0% chance?

The chances of being investigated as a miller in a 17 person game are fairly slim- I feel the risk of a mislynch due to it is quite small, and even then you may claim after being investigated in the night (possibly prior to the investigator outing themselves as such, and thus negating the need for the investigator to make themselves a scum target.) Specifically dissuading the investigator from trying to investigate you is suspicious.

Please clarify: is the "risk of a mislynch" you mention the risk of being investigated and then mislynched, or the risk of being mislynched once one has been investigated?  That is, is the risk small due to the low chance of being investigated, or due to there being a low chance of being lynched once investigated?

If the former, why shouldn't a miller try to eliminate a rather small but very easily eliminated chance of being mislynched, or at the very least a rather small but very easily eliminated chance of an investigation being wasted?  Is it not more helpful to the town for a theoretical miller to both minimize the chance of a mislynch and maximize the chance of the cop investigating actual scum?

It's not a 'strategy'- I'm saying even in the eventuality of the miller being investigated (quite low should they act like town and scumhunt), it is not a given that they will then be lynched. If we are to say that a miller claiming is towny, wouldn't every scumteam have a scum claim miller in every game? I don't believe a day 1 claim of miller is helpful to the town, no.

Spoiler: 4maskwolf (click to show/hide)

Also, Cheetar, what is this silliness about claiming after instead of before?

I believe it is evident enough. If you have an issue with understanding my post, please point out a particular problem and your current interpretation and I will try to ease understanding.

[Cheeetar]

Sorry IronyOwl. Missed this initially.

Spoiler: IronyOwl (click to show/hide)

Cheeetar:

In fact, in case it wasn't obvious enough already that I am asking everybody:
Everybody, do you think a claimed miller lynch would be the best choice on Day 1, in the absence of any strong scumtells, or would a more random vote work better?

I think it's a useless water-treading crutch. Making up our minds that we're going to lynch the most obvious target unless someone else confesses reduces the effectiveness and motivation of scumhunting, which gives us an even more useless D1 than normal. I think that if we can't find a better target than a first-post-confessed Miller, we should man up, accept that we're fucked regardless, and lynch whoever said the wrong thing at the wrong time and then dug themselves a hole with it, just like normal.

The chances of being investigated as a miller in a 17 person game are fairly slim- I feel the risk of a mislynch due to it is quite small

Specifically dissuading the investigator from trying to investigate you is suspicious.

Claiming pre-investigation miller seems like a self preservation technique, even if you're town- it's to avoid being mislynched (or appropriately lynched) after investigation, yes?

These first two seem to cancel each other out, don't they? If the odds are low, why bother with it as scum either?

What about the third makes post-investigation claiming townier than pre-investigation claiming? It's still a self-preservation no matter when you apply it.

Claiming first thing is anticipatory self preservation- You are worried about being lynched, and are doing what you can to lower the chance of it happening. To a scum, the effect of one of their number dying is more severe than it is to a townie, and it makes sense for them to be worried about being investigated.

I think claiming after investigation is less scummy because there is absolutely no reason for a town or a scum to not do it- town would be trying to avoid a wasted day and opportunity to lynch a scum.

[Imp]

Cheeetar:

Under what circumstances do you think an investigator should check a claimed Miller?

What would you do if you were an investigator, and checked a claimed Miller, and got a Town result?

[Cheeetar]

Cheeetar:

Under what circumstances do you think an investigator should check a claimed Miller?

What would you do if you were an investigator, and checked a claimed Miller, and got a Town result?

Be very, very confused. Suspect that I'm a defective investigator, or I was redirected, or shenanigans were occuring. I don't think an investigator should ever check a miller unless they somehow had an ability that let them see through miller.

When I say the investigator has to 'worry about the miller', I mean that their ability is then essentially useless against one person who may well be a scum.

[Toaster]

I can barely read right now and reading the hundred or so posts that blew up this thread would give me a migraine, but I'll start with some general RVS and a response to the Miller bit.  I'll read the rest when I can.


Claiming Miller in your very first post is a good practice, and is a null tell.

This is a practice I've strongly believed and followed all the way back to Paranormal 18, in which I did just this and was able to catch scum D1 over it.  Also that game was three years ago holy shit has it been that long

TL;DR it tells cops ahead of time what result they would get from inspecting that person, and lets them inspect other people instead.  If a townie claims that truthfully, then they saved the investigator an action and possibly prevented a mislynch, while a scum fakeclaiming that probably won't get investigated.  In both cases, a rolecop can see the truth.  In short, it's a null tell.

Anyway.


Imp:  Welcome back!  What did you learn in your absence that's applicable to Mafia?


IronyOwl:  Would you rather have a one-shot full rolecop or a regular doc ability?


NQT:  What does the unpredictable nature of a BYOR do to your analytical hunting style?


Persus:  If you had a one-shot kill, how strongly would you have to suspect someone to shoot them?

[flabort]

I got permission to stay! I won't be absent at all it turns out. 
Toaster Yeah it's a lot of post-atos. I bet that it's a lot to come to if you weren't there the whole time.

[Cheeetar]

Claiming Miller in your very first post is a good practice, and is a null tell.

This is a practice I've strongly believed and followed all the way back to Paranormal 18, in which I did just this and was able to catch scum D1 over it.  Also that game was three years ago holy shit has it been that long

TL;DR it tells cops ahead of time what result they would get from inspecting that person, and lets them inspect other people instead.  If a townie claims that truthfully, then they saved the investigator an action and possibly prevented a mislynch, while a scum fakeclaiming that probably won't get investigated.  In both cases, a rolecop can see the truth.  In short, it's a null tell.

Alright. In the event of a miller not claiming on day 1, would that be scummy?

[Tiruin]

Tiruin

I mean how can you classify THOUGHT? It is affected by its surroundings! Just like me. My powers are based on the # of people alive! <_< And even there I have no idea how they connect.
Do you want me to try to explain that? You want me to get a headache huh :x

Curious. Also, there are many ways to classify thought. I spent a good few years of my life studying philosophy that aims to do just that. But you haven't made any attempt to explain why 'thought' would come up 'scum' under inspect. And also, why are you so keen on not being role inspected?

I'm being condemned because I'm trying to explain why the mod game me miller in lieu of why I've this kind of role >_>
You've spent a good few years of your life studying philosophy?
I'm in a psychology course just to get my theories credited, and given my professor's commentaries and opinions on them, they're quite well-received. They are regarding the sphere of thought and human interaction.
I am being blamed for something out of my control--how a moderator interprets my role, and how I explain why I got miller? You append a series of blame to it because I somehow can't clarify it for you?

Wow NQT. That's pretty low of you. Why I'm 'so keen' on not having my role inspected is because it'll end up MAFIA. Are you trying to be obfuscating or are you seeing something I'm not even in the most blatant of logics? <_<

Find me a game where a Miller was a mostly innocent idea in the first place, because the method of your approach is flawed in its foundations. If you cannot, I'm free to hang, but let me tell you that it was in the interpretation of the moderator that led to being a miller in most cases--for the rest, it seems more on just getting miller.

Why are you so privvy about a simple miller claim? Something to think about much more than is even needed?

Oh you're right Tiruin, I'm questioning another player in a game of mafia too much, I sure better back off right now. You make a bold claim, I'm doing my job of questioning the veracity of that claim.

The only short way I can actually prove whatever 'veracity' you've got there is by role/nameclaiming, which I will not do due to my recall of mechanics also working on the idea of knowing people's names and the semantics within it--it was a thing in BYORs, and by far that is what I see in your ideas here, NQT.
You believe that I'm a miller, or in the least do claim miller--is my effort on trying to explain why I am a miller too much for you to handle or do you want to go off on a tangent that'd waste both of our energies? I lack any indication on why it is so bold or important for you to dwell on, and lest it be me explaining for myself, you need to clarify your foundation before anything else unless we go into misunderstandings.

Your usage of sarcasm is not well-received. It's like you're inflating my situation and playing it off with a handwave.
Very rude.

If I say that I've got cake-destroying powers, I'd want people to ask how cake-destroying comes under the purview of my role. If I said I could mix a fine martini, I'd want people to ask whether martini-mixing was relevant to my role. You've claimed miller, if you're not able to say how that's relevant to your role then I'm going to have to lynch you as lying scum. Don't claim what you can't justify.

...Yeah, downplay an analogy by relating it to food or the concept of physics.
If I'm not able to see how relevant to my role, then I'm lying scum~
How the heck do you want me to see relevance in a mod's decision!? Lying scum for what!?

Sure, there are lots of problems mankind that aren't directly related to resource use. I don't see what that has to do with how 'Thought' justifies 'Being a Miller'.

>__>
For a credited 'philosopher', you're pretty jaded in ideas. Or rather, you lack in expounding on them and instead use the threat of the lynch to try to squeeze some details--details which I cannot find or explain myself--in order to create an implication or show that you're scumhunting in a way.
I've already debunked and blunted your point before you showed it--I'm already attributing the case of me being a miller because that is how the MODERATOR interpreted my role! If you see anything wrong with that, ask me directly instead of poking vaguely and playing around.

Is your aim to know my rolename or not?

Have you missed my obvious cue. THOUGHT. THERE?
Ugh. You vote me for not being direct yet you cling yourself to the idea that you're scumhunting by asking me something I can't even answer.

Guess what--I'm repeating that idea again. Implicate me enough yet, sir?
@Cheeetar: I want a full explanation on your thoughts regarding the miller claim and I want it now. You're dancing around the bush with the assumption and tone of an interrogator facing me, and I'd like you to clarify your position beforehand.

The plan, Flabort, is that we lynch Tiruin because of the claim she's made- it's a better alternative than anything else currently available in Day 1.

AGAIN you use the term 'better' yet your foundation on the idea is vague at most.
Details. I'm repeating myself here by asking you that.

Let me try to stab you with the same jarred point you're facing at me.
I'm a miller. I'm town, yet inspect as miller. The only problem this puts me is with investigative types.
If I don't claim--or in the least find a way to input the idea that I'm a miller and then ge tinvestigated as scum--what can I do to deflect it at a later date? Psychology to you: The implication of a cop-claim is rooted deep in the Mafia player's psyche that only those who are curious enough to approach it with an open-mind would be those who would question the idea in its entirety. Given that this is a BYOR, an amalgamation of roles able to poke you from any which way are pretty much a common staple, adding to the many ways a misinterpreted target would be put down.

Imagine if you were investigated as scum in the future: how would you pass that off? Let me round that question to you?
You are a Miller but didn't claim earlier that you were a miller.

I think claiming miller prior to being investigated is more suspicious than claiming miller post being investigated.

Why?

The chances of being investigated as a miller in a 17 person game are fairly slim- I feel the risk of a mislynch due to it is quite small, and even then you may claim after being investigated in the night (possibly prior to the investigator outing themselves as such, and thus negating the need for the investigator to make themselves a scum target.) Specifically dissuading the investigator from trying to investigate you is suspicious.

Claiming pre-investigation miller seems like a self preservation technique, even if you're town- it's to avoid being mislynched (or appropriately lynched) after investigation, yes?

Is this it?
By gods on high I thought what you were thinking would be...deeper as a reason when in all actuality I'm being voted by such a superficial idea!
Chances!

How does a person value their target, Cheeetar? Does the majority--encompassing most players you've seen in your playing time, shoot randomly, especially if they have an investigative role?
Enlighten me.

Next, you brought up a post that seems very out of place.
What was the purpose of this post?
Have you gone blind or are you forgetful of Mafia terminology?
It's in the bloody BM.
But I digress.

It means posting from phone, right, and it isn't some sort of way Webadict has given you of identifying yourselves to each other?

It seems you are too steeped enough by the perception of you scumhunting that you're finding many other ways to 'hunt' instead of consulting the most basic resources at hand, huh.

What did you think of when I said PFP?
PFP
I like how I get 2 replies every preview. That's...what. 6 posts now? >_>
Cheeetar: Given your level of...investment into the posts you make and how many you're able to, I expect a clarified remark on your ideas there.
They are superficial and rely on the logic of 'chance' to persuade.

[Tiruin]

Tiruin:

I see it more as a way of tracking interactions. Obviously, there's the curious folk. Then there's scum who would use the shift of attention to either coast along calmly in the lack of heat, depending on the situation, and there are those which would show their attitudes at the slightest of provocation.

All it takes is a spark--the claim was a note of my role: part of it was also my interest in how others would see it, but not just because I had it.
What it is, is curiosity about you all.

Any particular reason to believe you're telling the truth about it, then?

Particular-...What?
It's all up to you to believe me--considering the replies I've had, it was believed. :V
If you want to actually believe in it, contrast and compare my attitude instead of the bloody label.
It's pretty much a heads-up that I'll inspect as scum no matter what.
How believable is that to you, because I can't understand what's your motive or your thoughts behind the observation there.
Could you explain, just like Cheeetar?

Tiruin, why do you not want to be rolecopped?

. . .
I'll pull out the dictionary for you. A Miller in most sense is someone who would give an unfavorable result when investigated or acted upon by an investigative role.
Why I do not want to be rolecopped is that I'd appear as scum. It's a waste of an investigation-so I'm putting it out already beforehand.
...
Oh dear gods I think I found the (well, pertinent) explanation why webadict poked me as miller (well, anyway, it's enlightening but...)

Knowing that webadict is a veteran ever since the first game, it would be meritous in his position to know how to play the game well. Given the stance of Miller in any situation--wherein they are investigated or not, I believe it would be in the weight of those who judge it where most of the suspicion lies. It's a bloody paradox with how it is felt and taken, as akin to the law system IRL, the weight and impact of an investigator is very much valued by society.

...Yeah, still needs thought on the matter for y'all to get that but that's my best interpretation of it.

That's different.  My death there was going to be a huge boon to the town(although my survival even more so), and I did die eventually (heh the scum thought they could frame me).

Also, yes, I am fed up with mafia.  I'm playing partially because a couple of people have told I should and partly because even though I'm done, part of me doesn't want to give it up, because it's been fun in the past.  That's not to say I won't play well: I will.  I'm just sick and tired of playing the game.  Or any game, for that matter.

This is particularly the reason why I asked you in that one game we're playing before this. NQT's masquerade?
Yeah. That one RVS question.

It's getting to your nerves.

[Tiruin]

Tiruin. Why exactly did you claim? Would you please explain how you believed your claim would help town? Until such a time as you've explained this, I feel my vote is best used on you.

*points up*
I had felt that everyone beforehand knew the implications of a miller, but it seems its...the obvious is hidden in plain sight.
I'm a miller. A miller, checking definition--and this is where I assumed everyone would already get the gist you ask here--already has a disadvantage by existing and playing the game. Given that it is tied with a very precise, accurate, and time-held traditional role that carries a load of weight on a player's value, it is a crucial aspect to the game yet in itself also does not play out as a foolproof method--the claiming, that is.

You 'feel' your vote is best yet you explain beforehand that your 'way' is "better".

Better than what, I ask? Search the term 'better' and you'll see it in all your posts regarding voting me off. Superlative, best.

[Cheeetar]

Better than... voting for somebody else? I had yet to notice anybody more suspicious, so that's the term I used.

Spoiler: Response to & Quotes from Tiruin. (click to show/hide)

@Cheeetar: I want a full explanation on your thoughts regarding the miller claim and I want it now. You're dancing around the bush with the assumption and tone of an interrogator facing me, and I'd like you to clarify your position beforehand.

I'm not at all familiar with claims on Day 1. It seems... audacious to me? I don't like that a miller claim essentially means you're immune to investigation from an alignment cop- however true it may be, it seems to me something that a townie would not do.

The plan, Flabort, is that we lynch Tiruin because of the claim she's made- it's a better alternative than anything else currently available in Day 1.

AGAIN you use the term 'better' yet your foundation on the idea is vague at most.
Details. I'm repeating myself here by asking you that.

Let me try to stab you with the same jarred point you're facing at me.
I'm a miller. I'm town, yet inspect as miller. The only problem this puts me is with investigative types.
If I don't claim--or in the least find a way to input the idea that I'm a miller and then ge tinvestigated as scum--what can I do to deflect it at a later date? Psychology to you: The implication of a cop-claim is rooted deep in the Mafia player's psyche that only those who are curious enough to approach it with an open-mind would be those who would question the idea in its entirety. Given that this is a BYOR, an amalgamation of roles able to poke you from any which way are pretty much a common staple, adding to the many ways a misinterpreted target would be put down.

Imagine if you were investigated as scum in the future: how would you pass that off? Let me round that question to you?
You are a Miller but didn't claim earlier that you were a miller.

"Hello, I have been investigated and I am not a scum- I'm a miller. Honest! Here is where I have been towny, and aided the town. Here is where I have done things a scum would not do. Please do not lynch me."

I think claiming miller prior to being investigated is more suspicious than claiming miller post being investigated.

Why?

The chances of being investigated as a miller in a 17 person game are fairly slim- I feel the risk of a mislynch due to it is quite small, and even then you may claim after being investigated in the night (possibly prior to the investigator outing themselves as such, and thus negating the need for the investigator to make themselves a scum target.) Specifically dissuading the investigator from trying to investigate you is suspicious.

Claiming pre-investigation miller seems like a self preservation technique, even if you're town- it's to avoid being mislynched (or appropriately lynched) after investigation, yes?

Is this it?
By gods on high I thought what you were thinking would be...deeper as a reason when in all actuality I'm being voted by such a superficial idea!
Chances!

How does a person value their target, Cheeetar? Does the majority--encompassing most players you've seen in your playing time, shoot randomly, especially if they have an investigative role?
Enlighten me.

For an investigative role, I'd say most would target those they either saw as scummy, or couldn't get a read on. I use the '1 in 17' chance, but I understand that it's not precisely that. However, given that the investigator may be any number of people in any number of moods, it would be very difficult to get a read on who they would be investigating, hence it's fairly random. (This is assuming there is no obvious target for investigation, which there may well be later on.)

Next, you brought up a post that seems very out of place.
What was the purpose of this post?
Have you gone blind or are you forgetful of Mafia terminology?
It's in the bloody BM.
But I digress.

It means posting from phone, right, and it isn't some sort of way Webadict has given you of identifying yourselves to each other?

It seems you are too steeped enough by the perception of you scumhunting that you're finding many other ways to 'hunt' instead of consulting the most basic resources at hand, huh.

What did you think of when I said PFP?
PFP
I like how I get 2 replies every preview. That's...what. 6 posts now? >_>
Cheeetar: Given your level of...investment into the posts you make and how many you're able to, I expect a clarified remark on your ideas there.
They are superficial and rely on the logic of 'chance' to persuade.

Err... the PFP thing was just me being really stupid. I didn't recognise the acronym, so I checked it out on google and there were no relevant results. I should have checked elsewhere for a definition. My bad.

[Tiruin]

I'm not at all familiar with claims on Day 1. It seems... audacious to me? I don't like that a miller claim essentially means you're immune to investigation from an alignment cop- however true it may be, it seems to me something that a townie would not do.

Mmm, why wouldn't a townie do that?
Why wouldn't a person do that?

Imagine if you were investigated as scum in the future: how would you pass that off? Let me round that question to you?
You are a Miller but didn't claim earlier that you were a miller.

"Hello, I have been investigated and I am not a scum- I'm a miller. Honest! Here is where I have been towny, and aided the town. Here is where I have done things a scum would not do. Please do not lynch me."

And how does that help you?

For an investigative role, I'd say most would target those they either saw as scummy, or couldn't get a read on. I use the '1 in 17' chance, but I understand that it's not precisely that. However, given that the investigator may be any number of people in any number of moods, it would be very difficult to get a read on who they would be investigating, hence it's fairly random. (This is assuming there is no obvious target for investigation, which there may well be later on.)

That's better, now. Clarity.
It isn't something done by chance unless the investigator lacks experience in what they do and just wishes to shoot blindly--a choice, rather.
It is a matter of thought and analysis. Will mood be the determinant of the action or will you think about using something which can be used as a limited resource in a given timeframe, wisely?
Is it still chance that way?

Or is there something I'm missing when you used chance as a reference?

[Cheeetar]

I'm not at all familiar with claims on Day 1. It seems... audacious to me? I don't like that a miller claim essentially means you're immune to investigation from an alignment cop- however true it may be, it seems to me something that a townie would not do.

Mmm, why wouldn't a townie do that?
Why wouldn't a person do that?

My initial thought was that a townie wouldn't make the discussion about themselves- they wouldn't be all too worried about being investigated anyway. A claim doesn't aid the town, so there's no need for it, and they'd focus on scumhunting.

Imagine if you were investigated as scum in the future: how would you pass that off? Let me round that question to you?
You are a Miller but didn't claim earlier that you were a miller.

"Hello, I have been investigated and I am not a scum- I'm a miller. Honest! Here is where I have been towny, and aided the town. Here is where I have done things a scum would not do. Please do not lynch me."

And how does that help you?

As town, I wouldn't want the day wasted on a lynch of me. If I can be convincing in my claim of miller, I can then continue assisting and try to find a scum to lynch.

For an investigative role, I'd say most would target those they either saw as scummy, or couldn't get a read on. I use the '1 in 17' chance, but I understand that it's not precisely that. However, given that the investigator may be any number of people in any number of moods, it would be very difficult to get a read on who they would be investigating, hence it's fairly random. (This is assuming there is no obvious target for investigation, which there may well be later on.)

That's better, now. Clarity.
It isn't something done by chance unless the investigator lacks experience in what they do and just wishes to shoot blindly--a choice, rather.
It is a matter of thought and analysis. Will mood be the determinant of the action or will you think about using something which can be used as a limited resource in a given timeframe, wisely?
Is it still chance that way?

Or is there something I'm missing when you used chance as a reference?

In my opinion, it's chance of a sort. Perhaps somebody with a much more analytical mind would be able to finger the probable targets of the investigator, but to a simple mind such as my own, it'd seem as if it were anybody's guess in regards the person to be investigated.

[Tiruin]

I'm not at all familiar with claims on Day 1. It seems... audacious to me? I don't like that a miller claim essentially means you're immune to investigation from an alignment cop- however true it may be, it seems to me something that a townie would not do.

Mmm, why wouldn't a townie do that?
Why wouldn't a person do that?

My initial thought was that a townie wouldn't make the discussion about themselves- they wouldn't be all too worried about being investigated anyway. A claim doesn't aid the town, so there's no need for it, and they'd focus on scumhunting.

Indeed it is--but the worry comes from what others will do no matter what happens, right? Who, in a general sense, would want to make the discussion about themselves? I'm very doubtful that a townie in any sense would do that.
Unless they're jester-types but that's also subjective.
Now a townie in that prospect has the note of being scum due to being a miller--it's a 'chance' in that instance, to use your understanding, but a possibility all the same. It is a null tell in that you cannot prove it unless I am dead or there's some kind of special 'true'cop role out there which can validate it; still justified by the weight it holds.

A claim doesn't aid the town. Yes, if you use the general idea in this context. And to probably specify it: An opinion does not aid the town, but it gives information. A claim related to the usage of abilities to uncover information is useful to the town.

However when the claim contradicts that which is the town's greatest weapon: the lynch, then that is where a claim may most likely aid the town, yes? However only in the case if I am investigated. The latter sentence is more of a condition and situation in itself rather than a chain to connect to the result. A claim with direct relevance this way, is up to the viewer on how it will aid them.

As town, I wouldn't want the day wasted on a lynch of me. If I can be convincing in my claim of miller, I can then continue assisting and try to find a scum to lynch.

Your claim is weighed against the claim of an investigator.