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[flabort]

Actually, since I suggested one power with a cost >10, let's produce some other later-game or scum-aligned roles, eh?

Powers:
(16) Exile: Your target dies. They do not roleflip, and they do not get to talk in the dead chat. The cannot return to the game. This counts as a kill or convert to scum's limit.
(14) Antilynch: Your target cannot be lynched (the following day (in the case of nonnightless)). Any votes on them will not count.
(10) Reset: Your target's powers, autos, flaws, and XP are reset to what they first picked. (Stronger Save Point, but with troll potential basically)
(25) Alignment Swap: Pick two targets. Their alignments get reversed. If one had access to a scum chat, they retain access to this scum chat.
(16) Extramurderous: Is a kill that does not count to the scum limit; gets a free "free-" that cannot be sold or separated from Etramurderous.

Autos:
(10) Experienced: Earn one extra XP per day. If you gain extra XP from another source, double the XP earned.
(16) Undefeatable: Lynches on you fail. Costs 20 for scum.

I believe that if you include these capstone abilities, you should include third parties.

[TolyK]

I was pretty disappointed nobody mask swapped in the whole game; there was a lot scum could have done to be cannier.

I probably would have if I was mafia. It seemed like the only way to counter the super-vig Flabort.

Also I retract my statement, good shot TolyK.

I basically got hit from left field at the last minute, right before I was about to win.  TolyK was the ONLY person left who could have stopped me, and stop me he did.  Also, well played, sir.

Har har. Good game!

Surely "tipping off the town that something was wrong" is better than "literally lose the game right now", though.

I had backup plans in case I was put higher up the chopping queue, but bussing both your teammates ruthlessly seems to be a rather effective strategy.

Does it?  I think exactly the opposite is true in this gametype - the best backup is to have another person ready to pick up the slack/protect you.  Otherwise unless you've convinced every single person that you're the single most townie player in the game and no townie realizes the trick you're using you'll lose.

I don't think TolyK really did, though.  He just had the suspicion something was off, shared it with nobody (I think) and hit me out of nowhere.  One of my scumbuddies was useless and going to die anyway and the other was on the chopping block.

And no, it really wasn't, not at that point in the game.  I would have had way too many townies against me to actually win at that point, and my point total wouldn't have supported being able to win from there.  I had to play the game stealthily, and frankly I didn't see the hit coming.  Had I felt at all endangered, I would have put up defenses, but I got a little bit too comfortable in my position.

To be quite honest, though, had TolyK not hit me the scum would almost certainly have one.

I was convinced until Toaster was town. You might have noticed that I said Flabort was the only confirmed town, several times.

And TolyK wins the MVP town player, for eliminating the extremely crafty scum who fooled everyone else.

Also, 4maskwolf, you seem to enjoy CYOM much more than any other Mafia games.

Yay!

Alright, how I guessed.
- Flabort couldn't be scum, that was proven.
- Flabort couldn't be killed except via autoblock. I thought the kill immunity thing out beforehand, by the way.
- Scripten was nulled, so he posed the least possible threat.
- 4mask had the graverob and a ton of points, which made him the largest possible threat.
- 4mask and Toony were my prime suspects, but mostly 4mask due mostly to being strange the whole game, not passing my reaction test (which I said was neutral! I lied!), and other small bits.
- I was planning on getting a revive and double kill tomorrow, but you would hang me before the 24 hour limit.
- I also wanted to do the double vote - vote steal combo, but I didn't have enough to hammer nor enough to action.
- So, I decided to shoot the most probable dangerous scum.

Basically, 4mask, you had too many points.

Time to read scum chat!

[Reverie]

Omigosh 4mask you were brilliant :O

[Tiruin]

\o/ 4mask!

Toony. >_>

[notquitethere]

OK, the initial builds are up.

The reason I didn't have 3rd parties in was because town invariably play like they're third-parties anyway. I think the only players who picked unabashedly pro-town builds were Reverie and Silthuri who went for investigative roles. Pretty much everyone else went for survival roles or messing-with-people roles. I'd consider it though.

I'll have a think about Flaborts late-game suggestions. Extramurderous would seem like a nice way to undermine super-vigs being automatically seen as town, but I wanted to move away from having specific scum-or-town only powers.

Here are some CYOM-style 3rd party ideas:

Enricher — They win when all surviving players have powers+autos+upgrades (minus flaws) equal to 10 points, you lose if you die.

(Everyone starts with '5', so the Enricher would be encouraged to Santa and Bless people to win, or Cleanse away their flaws, or alternatively kill all the players that claim to have had their powers stolen.)

Super-Doc — They win when they've stopped 5 kills using the Protect power.

(I'd only include a Super-Doc if I got rid of the kill limit for scum. Obviously, any super murderous scum killer is going to pick Unstoppable, so maybe this isn't a viable role anyway. They could always protect someone and then try to kill them each day (and watch as hilarity ensues when their target invariable chose Hardcore))

I considered having 2 scum teams of two-players each for this game. Rival scum teams would have the benefit of not resting on just one player's scum-team-build, increasing the likelihood of a competent scum team.

[TolyK]

2 scum teams is fine balance, it turns out, in large games. That would be fun for the third one.

[ToonyMan]

This game was so townsided you wouldn't believe

Scum didn't kill anybody!

[Reverie]

It's a bit embarrassing that I felt so strongly about 4maskwolf being town and was wrong :X

[Varee]

This game was so townsided you wouldn't believe

Scum didn't kill anybody!

well scum did kill them self once.....

[notquitethere]

How would other people have done the scum team? This is what I'd be tempted to roll up:

Alpha Scum
Innate Kill 9
(5 points of flaws)

Backup Scum
Reflect 6
Flexible 2
Bloodthirsty 1
(4 points of flaws)

Heal Bot Scum
Prolific 4
Free Innate Cleanse 6
(five points of flaws)

Alpha kills (and crucially, has innate which prevents the kill being stolen); Beta keeps alive and builds up points, ready to cash in their Reflect for a kill if they need to take killing duty; Heal Bot cleanses all of Alpha's flaws on Day 1, cleanses all their own flaws by Reflecting off of Backup on Day 2, Day 3 when Backup takes over for Alpha (assuming Alpha has been lynched by this point), has all their flaws cleansed by Heal Bot. Or something like that. Backup would probably want to cash in their Reflect for a Graverob after the first kill, rob something high-value and buy back reflect the first chance they have.

[ToonyMan]

I'd probably do something like this:

Mr. President
-10 Free Vote stealer
+1 Minimalist
+1 Hardcore
+1 Dense
+2 One-shot

Tom Mayor
-5 Double-Voter
maybe some flaws for other stuff

The Saint
-4 Free Cleanse
other good stuff

Have The Saint cleanse Mr. President's one-shot, and then have Pres steal two random town player's votes (if they're nonvoters then that makes our job easier). Have everybody play dumb while we steal everybody's votes through the game. Once we're sure we have more votes than the town we can quick-hammer for the win (kills can't happen for 24 hours after day start remember). Tom Mayor and The Saint also have "town" looking roles, though I have to admit having a cleanse in your initial build may look really scummy if you think about it.

Ideally, you could get Mr. President prolific for triple vote steals, and Tom Mayor could get vote stealer as well.


So. This game.

2/3 scum chose unable to vote. 66%
3/9 town chose unable to vote. 33%

Numbers man.

But not only that, if scum had my build listed above and hit two town players who decided that having a vote was actually a good idea, scum would have a majority on Day 1. I'm suuuuuuuuuuure that some town players would pick either kill or changeling though, so scum would be wisest to hang back on their vote monopoly. If The Saint could get protect and the other two hardy that would be better.

It would look like this though:

Day 1 start.

Scum have 4 votes.
Town have 6 votes.

Pres steals two votes (which he has a good chance of pulling off).

Scum have 6 votes.
Town have 4 votes.

Uh oh town

[notquitethere]

That's a nice tactic, though it's very vulnerable to power stealing tactics, and canny town players could attempt to nip it in the bud by all buying Super Saint.

[ToonyMan]

I guess everybody could sell their shit and buy super saint huh.

INNATE ON EVERYTHING


Is there no protection from super saint?

[notquitethere]

Kill immune should probably be protection, but the current wording suggests otherwise. (Also, kill immune is a bit over powered as it is.)

[Toaster]

Glad to see my 4mask suspicion was justified; shame on me for not chasing it down.  Good shot, TolyK!

Also, clearly asshole townie builds exist and don't automatically mean scum; this is an interesting meta observation for build creation.

Also, Graverob is very strong.  It might need a price increase.



As far as game changes go:

(Flaw) Insidious (-1): You gain 1 extra XP at the start of each day, but cannot spend XP on buying powers, autos, or modifiers.

I like this one.

Also, you know what I think this game needs?

Third Parties.

I agree.  The gametype's mature enough that it's ready to be shaken up.

I considered having 2 scum teams of two-players each for this game. Rival scum teams would have the benefit of not resting on just one player's scum-team-build, increasing the likelihood of a competent scum team.

This is also fun.  Are you familiar with Monks and Masons?  It's a 12-man game with two 2-man scum teams.

(25) Alignment Swap: Pick two targets. Their alignments get reversed. If one had access to a scum chat, they retain access to this scum chat.

"Hey guys I was scum but am town now; my buddies are X Y and Z."

No.  Under no circumstances do mafiosos become townies.

Kill immune should probably be protection, but the current wording suggests otherwise. (Also, kill immune is a bit over powered as it is.)

Make it work once per phase?  "Kill Resistant" instead?


I haven't truly sat down and thought about scum builds (other than ones that abuse Industrious) but I'd think swapping into a votesteal build lategame would be effective at getting vote parity later on.