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[PatrikLundell]

"So the plan was to upgrade my compiler and then do another bug fix release before doing 64 bit stuff,..."

If you're only going to do one more bug fix release before rushing on, please aim it to clear out the worst bugs introduced in 0.42.X+. While I've found it encouraging to see a number of bugs fixed in the latest releases (and grabbing a bunch of "random" bugs now and then to squash is a good thing), it's a bit worrying that there doesn't seem to have been any directed effort to tidy up the issues created/revealed with zones/visitors. To make this into a question: what's your aim for bug fixing before moving on?

[Bumber]

Is there any specific reason goblins don't need to eat or drink?

I disabled the tags and there don't seem to be any ill effects in world gen, if that was a concern. (I recall hearing about some old bug feature with stuff starving in world gen.)

[LordBaal]

I have been doing the same with every release since forever. Even made a thread about it and the other assorted changes I made. Removing the tags from goblins never had ill effects. Only once I saw them dissappear from the world and I don't think it was related to that but rather the small number of civilisations on that game.
The question itself, the answer I think is for lore reasons more than practical purposes. Could goblins be considered lesser demons at some extent? I think they do.

[DG]

From memory, the brothers don't like to think of goblins as having to bother with things like farming (or any of the broader economics that come from having to eat).

[FantasticDorf]

I have been doing the same with every release since forever. Even made a thread about it and the other assorted changes I made. Removing the tags from goblins never had ill effects. Only once I saw them dissappear from the world and I don't think it was related to that but rather the small number of civilisations on that game.
The question itself, the answer I think is for lore reasons more than practical purposes. Could goblins be considered lesser demons at some extent? I think they do.

Eh. Whats to say the dwarves and the goblins (and perhaps the elves/humans too) are not all divisions of the psyche of Armoks first real attempt (on level with us IRL complex minded people) made in its own image deemed too dangerous to itself and the world it is placed in. Really who stands best chance to inherit the world?

Goblins tired of their harsh below ground existence not blessed with divine inspiration & general ambition formed a pact? Demons shaped the goblins out of dwarves/deep dwarves lower down in the abyssal earth? In the stories and DF lore goblins are cited to being native to the 'underworld' or somewhat close to the lava mantles, where often forgotten beasts roam and refer to themselves as "the true people" could be right that they are truly before time? could be wrong?

Anything goes i guess. That's what the future world creation story generator is out there for until the brothers put anything down clearly.

From memory, the brothers don't like to think of goblins as having to bother with things like farming (or any of the broader economics that come from having to eat).

It'd probably make sense that they & the trolls they bring with them partially devour bodies (with the civility to apply seasoning i hope) as well as their own kind from the scavenges of epic battles they have and sieges. If you can work out how much meat is on a dwarf and then equate roughly that 7 dwarves can feed twice as many goblins in a month (plus own casualties) from a half successful early siege. Sacking and murdering (taking the supplies contained within also) is going to always turn up a food profit as long as the goblin casualties are re-delivered to make break even in the worst circumstances.

Starve the goblins out by not fighting in a barren wasteland and they'll turn on themselves for all good reason. Nice to see some more dissent amongst goblins. Obviously goblins have some kind economics already, given that they do have crude industry to produce weapons, armour and whatever else they need at a local level (because no wagon accessibility without modding)

[Witty]

From memory, the brothers don't like to think of goblins as having to bother with things like farming (or any of the broader economics that come from having to eat).

But how would the goblins feed their non-goblin prisoners then? I'd think that someone would have to grow a bit of food for them at the very least.

Unless all their food is collected from the local wilderness, or stolen.

And piggy backing off PatrikLundell, do you intend to continue on with this phase of extended bug fixes after the 64-bit rewrite?

[Seagoon]

How difficult would it be to allow a caste to override the random selection of what caste to birth with a specific caste of the modder choice or even have a specific sub list of castes to produce? This seems like a feature that would give a lot of power to modders and it is somthing I have been waiting to be introduced for several years now

Isn't that what pop_ratio does? When I did my steel angel experiment they were all female and often had trouble with world-gen pop numbers, later I added a 1:5000 ratio male adventurer-tuned caste and while they were around enough to keep them breeding and whatnot, checking legends I rarely saw them, and never encountered one in game. I did a similar thing with my dwarf male/female/dorf adventurer caste thing, where the dorfs had 0 ratio so they only showed up once in a blue moon during world-gen weirdness, unless chosen by a player to use that caste.

pop_ratio does what it says on the tin heh, each caste will have that chance to be born (1:10 1:948 1:10000 etc), it does not however do what i want to do which is discriminate which castes are born from which castes.

An example of what i want to achieve is this:

Caste A can give birth to Castes A, B, C

Caste B can only give birth to caste B

Caste C can give birth to only Caste C

The caste born would use the mothers limitations, so a Caste A father reproducing with a Caste C mother can only produce caste C.

Though thinking about it, maybe a caste should only be able to give birth to the intersection of the caste lists from both the father and mother, might be a more useful way of doing things.

What im thinking is that the pop_ratio tag would turn into [CASTE_BORN: GIANTBADGERDRAGONCARPUNICORNELEPHANT : 10] which just means that the caste with this entry will produce this cast in a litter 10% of the time. You can then just stack more of these tags to extend the list.

[Dirst]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

How difficult would it be to allow a caste to override the random selection of what caste to birth with a specific caste of the modder choice or even have a specific sub list of castes to produce? This seems like a feature that would give a lot of power to modders and it is somthing I have been waiting to be introduced for several years now

Isn't that what pop_ratio does? When I did my steel angel experiment they were all female and often had trouble with world-gen pop numbers, later I added a 1:5000 ratio male adventurer-tuned caste and while they were around enough to keep them breeding and whatnot, checking legends I rarely saw them, and never encountered one in game. I did a similar thing with my dwarf male/female/dorf adventurer caste thing, where the dorfs had 0 ratio so they only showed up once in a blue moon during world-gen weirdness, unless chosen by a player to use that caste.

pop_ratio does what it says on the tin heh, each caste will have that chance to be born (1:10 1:948 1:10000 etc), it does not however do what i want to do which is discriminate which castes are born from which castes.

An example of what i want to achieve is this:

Caste A can give birth to Castes A, B, C

Caste B can only give birth to caste B

Caste C can give birth to only Caste C

The caste born would use the mothers limitations, so a Caste A father reproducing with a Caste C mother can only produce caste C.

Though thinking about it, maybe a caste should only be able to give birth to the intersection of the caste lists from both the father and mother, might be a more useful way of doing things.

What im thinking is that the pop_ratio tag would turn into [CASTE_BORN: GIANTBADGERDRAGONCARPUNICORNELEPHANT : 10] which just means that the caste with this entry will produce this cast in a litter 10% of the time. You can then just stack more of these tags to extend the list.

The clearest example I recall of something like that was a D&D race called the gratar.  They had a strict caste system, with each caste being a subspecies with a distinctive color and defining set of characteristics.  Only certain castes can be born to a mother of a certain caste, with the green gratar (the lowliest) being only ones who could produce a very rare black gratar (sort of their queen bee).  Haven't played D&D in ages, so I'm sure there are others here who know the material a lot better.

It'd be nice to have that kind of feature available to modders, but not exactly a high priority when we have this whole wonderful myth generator thing to play with.

[Seagoon]

It'd be nice to have that kind of feature available to modders, but not exactly a high priority when we have this whole wonderful myth generator thing to play with.

Lots of reasons for it to be used heh, but im not sure why its not exactly a high priority because some unrelated feature is being worked on.

Also what should be considered high/low priority is kind of a personal thing. If it is not a big deal to implement im sure no one would complain to see it added in.

[Bumber]

From memory, the brothers don't like to think of goblins as having to bother with things like farming (or any of the broader economics that come from having to eat).

They're defined as bone-eating carnivores.

[falcc]

I'm so hyped for all the upcoming stuff once bug fixes are done. Sorry if this is too many questions.

Now that adventurers can put items on tables and there's a bit of picking-up going on in adventure mode with muggers and tavern keepers picking up dropped items, is there any plan for shopkeepers to start storing their stock on tables or in containers instead of all over the shop floor?

It'd certainly flesh out theft a little bit if you had to actually sneak past someone to get to the room with more expensive goods, with shopkeepers carrying things from displays to you, even if it's otherwise going to be shallow for a while.  Speaking of which:

Are any crime and punishment arc elements planned for the artifact arc? Will stealing artifacts from an entity just turn the entire civilization you took it from against you like regular theft, or will people only request artifacts possessed by mega beasts or enemy civs until different entity sub-groups are more filled in? Will there be rumors about artifacts being moved around, who has stolen/liberated them, whether they've been spotted with someone in particular.

Actually here's an open question for anyone that knows, what happens to artifacts now if an adventurer dies with one away from a site? Just drowns or something. Is it lost?

also

You've talked about tea making before, there's the partially implemented pearl-crafting in the game already, and you've suggested wax might have a resurgence once you get to the lighting arc. Are there any more industries you're planning to implement into the game that aren't explicitly laid out on the development log? Short or long term, I'm just interested in what might eventually be coming even if it's a long ways away.

[Taffer]

I would swear that at some point in the past, Toady mentioned overhauling the skill system to make it more automatic: eg, if a fortress really needed a new mason and jobs were piling up, it would automatically turn masonry on for an appropriate dwarf. It's frustrating that I can't find the quote. At the moment, it seems like many players either rely on an external utility (Therapist) or randomly assign jobs to dwarves, and neither of those two seem ideal.

Are there plans to automate turning on skills for dwarves? Alternatively, are there plans to make it easier to both manage large fortresses and to make it clear what dwarves would be best suited for a given skill?

EDIT: Found it. Selected quote is just a small part of the discussion. Both Toady One and Threetoe talk about it in the last DF Talk.

Also, it's a hint where we're going with this, which is to get rid of VPL all together, eventually.

[vjmdhzgr]

I would swear that at some point in the past, Toady mentioned overhauling the skill system to make it more automatic: eg, if a fortress really needed a new mason and jobs were piling up, it would automatically turn masonry on for an appropriate dwarf. It's frustrating that I can't find the quote. At the moment, it seems like many players either rely on an external utility (Therapist) or randomly assign jobs to dwarves, and neither of those two seem ideal.

Are there plans to automate turning on skills for dwarves? Alternatively, are there plans to make it easier to both manage large fortresses and to make it clear what dwarves would be best suited for a given skill?

Oh please no that sounds like it would ruin the entire game for me.

[Random_Dragon]

Oh please no that sounds like it would ruin the entire game for me.

If automated labor-enabling was an option disabled by default, I can see it being nifty. I tend to dump desired labors on random dwarves that aren't doing anything at the moment. o3o

[LordBaal]

It sounds like something could be done from the manager itself to be even more realistic. Job asignations in times of need could work like that