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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 1884504 times)

Putnam

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3210 on: January 04, 2016, 06:27:02 pm »

Adventure mode related: don't know if this was addressed already, couldn't comb over the whole thread, but, are we gonna see personalized (and customizable in the "speech" folder) speech patterns for different races? It's kind of a strange dissonance right now that goblins and hostile bandits/criminals are as polite as any friendly race/group. Same goes for similar always-hostile modded civ. You'd think they'd "greet" you with insults and angrily tell you to "Go away!" as a "goodbye", and so on and so forth for the trade window and other talk options.
You mean, other than what the [LISP] tag already does.
Quote
On a similar note, will we see customizable embark messages for modding purposes?
You're gonna have to ask Meph about that one. His DF Masterwork contains customized messages.

So do a few others, not like anyone gives a shit about mods that aren't Masterwork.

Anyway, that's done by uncompressing the embark message file, editing it and recompressing. I'm actually not 100% sure why it's compressed.

LordBaal

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3211 on: January 04, 2016, 06:28:16 pm »

Am I the only one hyped at the idea of a zombie nerf? ;w;
Not at all. I'm hyped as well. I claimed for something along those lines from a long time now.
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Silverybearded

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3212 on: January 04, 2016, 06:32:38 pm »

Anyway, that's done by uncompressing the embark message file, editing it and recompressing. I'm actually not 100% sure why it's compressed.
How do I decompress that file?
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Putnam

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3213 on: January 04, 2016, 06:34:36 pm »

There's a weird text file (WTF) decompressor around... and another on in perl. I can only remember the name of the WTF one, though. (It's something with WTF, just look up WTF weird text file dwarf fortress and you'll get it).

Trainzack

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3214 on: January 04, 2016, 06:45:04 pm »

There's a weird text file (WTF) decompressor around... and another on in perl. I can only remember the name of the WTF one, though. (It's something with WTF, just look up WTF weird text file dwarf fortress and you'll get it).
Found it.

Silverybearded

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3215 on: January 04, 2016, 07:00:02 pm »

It only partially disencrypts the files; It stopped right at "Strike the".
Also, why do all other files in that folder return blanks? The help files can be disencrypted normally (although, again, incompletely), so someone who's got time could update the tutorial.
Finally, how do I find out about the speech tokens I can use?
« Last Edit: January 04, 2016, 07:10:31 pm by Silverybearded »
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Engraved is a superior rendition of an image of Arkoth, the local deity of balance and speech, and two elves. Arkoth is burning the two elves. Arkoth is laughing. The two elves are suffering. The image was commissioned by the Round Guild, a local dwarven government.

Button

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3216 on: January 04, 2016, 07:08:18 pm »

Toady, do you expect you'll move the ability for improvements to change the colors of items out into the raws anytime soon?
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Robsoie

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3217 on: January 04, 2016, 07:44:03 pm »

Am I the only one hyped at the idea of a zombie nerf? ;w;
Not at all. I'm hyped as well. I claimed for something along those lines from a long time now.
Every dwarves in every fortresses are completely hyped for this change too .
:D
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ZM5

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3218 on: January 04, 2016, 08:11:27 pm »

You mean, other than what the [LISP] tag already does.
Erm, that merely extends the s's in speech, it doesn't change what they actually say.
What I mean is more like...tokens in, for instance, the Goblin raw files pointing to text files in the speech folder that each contain different types of greetings for them, depending if they're hostile or not. Similar to how the race-specific "brag about kill" messages are currently used for dwarves and elves, or how Minotaurs use the lair_hunter_minotaur.txt file; different greetings/goodbyes could be specified for different races.

I.e if a goblin is an enemy of your civ but is currently non-hostile they'd be rude and greet you with, for example, "What do you want, *race*?" or "Keep it quick, I have more important things to do." and on "goodbye" would say something like "Now leave!" or "Begone!" - different types of greetings based on civ relations. Right now greetings are the same for each race (which, as I said, creates a dissonance when hostile races such as goblins are really polite as they're trying to kill you; greetings can be edited but that applies to everything currently).

This being part of the speech folder would make it more modable and customizable for individual races, which would be a great way for mods to add more flavor.

As for the embark message, I haven't played Masterwork but myself I'd rather not mess around with compressed files.
Also I don't mean just removing the "Strike the earth" and mentions of a "Mountainhome" to make it neutral; again, a token could be added for modding purposes to point to a different embark message. The dwarf one is the default, and alternates could be specified in the entity files.

Untrustedlife

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3219 on: January 04, 2016, 09:37:50 pm »

Does the personality of a leader determine the nation's foreign policy during worldgen? I've seen evidence to support it.
Toady mentioned in df talk way back that the personallity effects how often they go to war, however with the new personality stuff from 40.xx there might be more, so short answer yes definitely effects some things, long answer  (awaiting toady)
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Untrustedlife

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3220 on: January 04, 2016, 09:45:15 pm »


Quote from: Robsoie
While 34.11 and previous versions "spawned" sieges had often gob weapon masters, this does not happen in either df2014 or 42.x with the new "marching armies" of those versions and all the goblin sieges through the years i faced in any of my forts are always made of low skilled gob soldiers or recruits.

And considering they take 2/3 years to decide to come to your fortress in 42.01, it's important to note that the current dwarven military training can easily deliver a couple of legendary dwarves in only a couple of years by simply them sparring, transforming those gob sieges that were supposed to be threat a simple walk in the park when a single legendary dwarf can kill a dozen of those invading gobs by himself in no time.

So do you have plans to have gobs training their military skills in their dark sites the same as dwarves does in your fortress to get sieges challenging again ?

I've made note of it.


Armies can still have members with very high skills in 42.04.

In 1053 a marching army that just vistied Savotasob consisted of a lot of low-skilled goblins. some skilled marks-goblins and a single legendary goblin axeman, Sasir Gislaemoth.

My not-so legendary skilled marksdwarf and hammerdwarf squads easily dispatched the low skilled and marks-gobblins plus their trolls. 

Sasir ate through all 20 warriors with ease: mostly through head-removing ax chops.  Two taverns containing a combined 36 visiting solders then proceeded to get pasted to the fort walls.

Will siege armies ever have different goals?

That is, can they ever capture spoil such as taking animals in cages off of piles or in pastures to drag them off the map?

Right now there is only one kind of siege: kill everything that moves.  There are already normal fort thieves and several kinds of thieving wildlife. There are a few thieve related goals on the dev page.

Having to keep an army from stealing you blind on top of butchering your citizens seems very medieval. Forts also would have to be very careful about leaving stuff outside the gates.   Having a depot destroyed is inconvenient.  Having everything that was stuck on it hauled off too (by something other than a random kea or buzzard) means rethinking some fort designs.

I believe this almost same exact question was asked and answered in a df talk way back, dont remember which one.
he mentioned elf ambushes currently having the goal to "shoot a certain amount of arows and leave" and kidnappers and such.

so i guess yes.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3221 on: January 04, 2016, 10:18:53 pm »

Does the personality of a leader determine the nation's foreign policy during worldgen? I've seen evidence to support it.
Toady mentioned in df talk way back that the personallity effects how often they go to war, however with the new personality stuff from 40.xx there might be more, so short answer yes definitely effects some things, long answer  (awaiting toady)
He also mentioned recently that vampire rulers currently impose harsh laws in worldgen, so that might also effect foreign policy.
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Trainzack

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3222 on: January 04, 2016, 10:45:45 pm »

I believe this almost same exact question was asked and answered in a df talk way back, dont remember which one.
he mentioned elf ambushes currently having the goal to "shoot a certain amount of arows and leave" and kidnappers and such.

so i guess yes.

Relatively early on in number 2:

Quote from: Toady
   Yeah. It's sad right now, of course. The goals depend on the critters. The humans goal is just to kill everybody. The goblins, when they send a large invasion, their goal is just to kill everybody. The elves are there to shoot a certain number of arrows or until their group gets spotted prematurely; they aren't trying to kill everybody, but they're just trying to mess with you. And if snatchers or item thieves come, which is another kind of invasion, they're just trying to make it out, and their escorts if they have any work like the elves, they just try and bother you a little bit and distract you. But that's about it;

WordsandChaos

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3223 on: January 05, 2016, 08:55:21 am »

You mean, other than what the [LISP] tag already does.
Erm, that merely extends the s's in speech, it doesn't change what they actually say.
What I mean is more like...tokens in, for instance, the Goblin raw files pointing to text files in the speech folder that each contain different types of greetings for them, depending if they're hostile or not. Similar to how the race-specific "brag about kill" messages are currently used for dwarves and elves, or how Minotaurs use the lair_hunter_minotaur.txt file; different greetings/goodbyes could be specified for different races.

I.e if a goblin is an enemy of your civ but is currently non-hostile they'd be rude and greet you with, for example, "What do you want, *race*?" or "Keep it quick, I have more important things to do." and on "goodbye" would say something like "Now leave!" or "Begone!" - different types of greetings based on civ relations. Right now greetings are the same for each race (which, as I said, creates a dissonance when hostile races such as goblins are really polite as they're trying to kill you; greetings can be edited but that applies to everything currently).

This being part of the speech folder would make it more modable and customizable for individual races, which would be a great way for mods to add more flavor.

As for the embark message, I haven't played Masterwork but myself I'd rather not mess around with compressed files.
Also I don't mean just removing the "Strike the earth" and mentions of a "Mountainhome" to make it neutral; again, a token could be added for modding purposes to point to a different embark message. The dwarf one is the default, and alternates could be specified in the entity files.

I'd love to be able to add/rewrite/edit all racial text  in DF. The, now defunct, open source space sim Vega Strike had an xml file for each faction that you could add and change speech in - I spent a fair amount of time just adding stuff to the factions.

I expect that this kind of thing will come up if Toady decides to embark on a language re-write. I know that topic gets floated about a bit, but no idea if it's an official thing he'd like to do at some point in the far-flung future. Seems like it'd be pretty huge task, conlangs are pretty dense if you want to go the whole hog with them. 

Untrustedlife

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #3224 on: January 05, 2016, 11:04:23 pm »

I believe this almost same exact question was asked and answered in a df talk way back, dont remember which one.
he mentioned elf ambushes currently having the goal to "shoot a certain amount of arows and leave" and kidnappers and such.

so i guess yes.

Relatively early on in number 2:

Quote from: Toady
   Yeah. It's sad right now, of course. The goals depend on the critters. The humans goal is just to kill everybody. The goblins, when they send a large invasion, their goal is just to kill everybody. The elves are there to shoot a certain number of arrows or until their group gets spotted prematurely; they aren't trying to kill everybody, but they're just trying to mess with you. And if snatchers or item thieves come, which is another kind of invasion, they're just trying to make it out, and their escorts if they have any work like the elves, they just try and bother you a little bit and distract you. But that's about it;
Thanks for finding that  ;)
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