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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 1880833 times)

Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2520 on: September 23, 2015, 04:46:31 pm »

Still, clothing size isn't something you can learn.
Why not? People aren't all one size, you know.
After hundreds/thousands of years of living together you'd think Dwarf tailors would have figured out the dimensions of a human by now. It's not like human visitors to your fort are the first encounter with an alien race...
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Lielac

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2521 on: September 23, 2015, 06:31:48 pm »

Still, clothing size isn't something you can learn.
Why not? People aren't all one size, you know.
After hundreds/thousands of years of living together you'd think Dwarf tailors would have figured out the dimensions of a human by now. It's not like human visitors to your fort are the first encounter with an alien race...
I think cephalo was comparing clothing size to cultural values. A human can learn dwarven ethics, but they couldn't become short and squat enough to fit into dwarven clothing barring magical intervention. Or vise versa, with dwarves in a human civ. So there would be a need for clothes tailored to human dimensions being shipped to the Mountainhomes, and clothes in dwarven dimensions being shipped to the rolling plains of the human holdings.

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Rose

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2522 on: September 23, 2015, 11:29:37 pm »

Or just, you know, make clothing to size.
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Vattic

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2523 on: September 24, 2015, 02:54:45 am »

EDIT: Another aspect to this question is that if our forts are multicultural, then it makes sense that other civs will also be multicultural and there may be a need for dwarf sized clothing in a human civ (for example).
Other sites already are multicultural.
Multiracial =/= Multicultural

Things are still a bit fuzzy on how new citizens come around to the fort's ethics.
Fair point. I think cephalo meant multiracial, as I did, considering the conversation was about civs needing varied clothing sizes for their varied race citizens. Words are hard.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2524 on: September 27, 2015, 05:08:10 am »

@Japa: Since DF produces clothing for off the shelf pickup, changing the model to custom production would be a fairly significant change, although that would be more historically accurate. That would basically change the tailor job from being an industrial production job to being an on demand job (like butchering). Urist would order a clothing item and the tailor would produce it, after which Urist would pick it up (and probably order a new item). The player would then have to guess if the cloth production was sufficient and if there are enough tailors (unless the jobs list would display the backlog), you couldn't produce clothing for export (although that's not really needed currently, as the worn stuff is more than sufficient), and you couldn't equip your dorfs with the highest quality clothing unless you could set the tailor to retry (i.e. produce new items) until a player set quality threshold was reached (similar to the book keeper's accuracy), but you'd get problems with paired items of independent quality, which would probably have to be de-paired, at least at the production level. I believe historically, although clothing was "custom" made, it typically was of a general enough fit to be inherited by someone of generally the same size (frequently regardless of gender) until worn out (only the wealthiest had money to waste on tailoring for themselves exclusively). In a multi species fortress I think the S/M/L sizes should be sufficient (unless you need XL for ogres/giants).
Another issue is with armor, where you may very well WANT to pre produce to have it available when you get your recruits (and to train those producing it). It'd get messy to have one logic for leather gloves and another for leather armor. Also, allowing Urist to order items would also mean you don't have control over the material used (what kind of cloth, or leather), although I guess a selection to allow/forbid leather for clothing might work. Such a system might allow Urist to ask for a specific material/color if available, but in that case the item received would have to be a "best fit" based on what's available when the item is produced (if Urist is keen on wearing "something special now and again" he might be more likely to try to order additional stuff to better fit his taste when the materials are available, possibly with a "don't bother if you can't match my request" for these extra luxury items to avoid a huge pile of unnecessary luxury items).

Would the above be worth the effort to implement? Probably not.
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JesterHell696

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2525 on: September 27, 2015, 07:30:29 am »

Toady is the fortress mode economy ever going to return? if so how and if not why?

Edit: answered. (Toady & MrWiggles)
« Last Edit: September 29, 2015, 11:26:54 pm by JesterHell696 »
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MrWiggles

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2526 on: September 27, 2015, 08:03:31 am »

Toady is the fortress mode economy ever going to return? if so how and if not why?
Yes it'll return. My understanding, it has to do with figuring out what to do with Caravans, and hill dorfs. There is also the stacking issue that coins have. We should be seeing some return with the Taverns, but not what was there in 40d.
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JesterHell696

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2527 on: September 27, 2015, 09:50:28 pm »

Yes it'll return. My understanding, it has to do with figuring out what to do with Caravans, and hill dorfs. There is also the stacking issue that coins have. We should be seeing some return with the Taverns, but not what was there in 40d.

I vaguely remember something about it returning but I was wondering if it was hearsay, wishful thinking or something Toady had actually said as the last thing I remember Toady saying about economy was something about how in some starting scenarios (Temples) it wouldn't make sense but couldn't remember where and I know that some of the people who frequent this topic keep a better track of these things then I and reply when they know, so thanks.

Toady I remember you saying something about the player affecting adventure mode personality's, can you choose both personality facets and beliefs and does it work like attribute distributions with points that you spend to increase or lower your value or do you just select a value you want?

Edit:with the addition of bards and traveling musicians will there be followers who's motivation is not death and glory?

I'm not sure if this would fit DF talk more or if its even still a thing (last one was almost 12 months ago) so I'll ask here.

I saw that in the merchant arc it says ability to hire bodyguards and buying cottages and other properties, do you see the possibility to hire farmers to till you fields, cooks to prepare food or the ability to custom order armor/weapons from a blacksmith ect.

Edit2: Answered. (MrWiggles)
« Last Edit: September 29, 2015, 09:37:15 am by JesterHell696 »
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"The long-term goal is to create a fantasy world simulator in which it is possible to take part in a rich history, occupying a variety of roles through the course of several games." Bay 12 DF development page

"My stance is that Dwarf Fortress is first and foremost a simulation and that balance is a secondary objective that is always secondary to it being a simulation while at the same time cannot be ignored completely." -Neonivek

Dirst

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2528 on: September 28, 2015, 04:51:40 am »

I saw that in the merchant arc it says ability to hire bodyguards and buying cottages and other properties, do you see the possibility to hire farmers to till you fields, cooks to prepare food or the ability to custom order armor/weapons from a blacksmith ect.
Have you tried fort mode?  :P
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JesterHell696

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2529 on: September 28, 2015, 05:23:56 am »

Have you tried fort mode?  :P

Yep, I just want to play fort mode at adv mode time scale and with all the plans to make it possible to do every thing in adv mode that you can do in fort mode I was wondering if I could use a hiring system to run a fortress as an adventurer.  ;D
« Last Edit: September 28, 2015, 05:28:12 am by JesterHell696 »
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"The long-term goal is to create a fantasy world simulator in which it is possible to take part in a rich history, occupying a variety of roles through the course of several games." Bay 12 DF development page

"My stance is that Dwarf Fortress is first and foremost a simulation and that balance is a secondary objective that is always secondary to it being a simulation while at the same time cannot be ignored completely." -Neonivek

MrWiggles

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2530 on: September 29, 2015, 02:30:15 am »




I saw that in the merchant arc it says ability to hire bodyguards and buying cottages and other properties, do you see the possibility to hire farmers to till you fields, cooks to prepare food or the ability to custom order armor/weapons from a blacksmith ect.
This was talked about in DF Talf. There was even some discussion about the ability to let large swath of time pass, and playing as your avatar kid. There was some talk about everything in fort mode being able to be done in adventure mode, and everything happening in adventure mode to be respected in fort mode.
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malvado

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2531 on: September 29, 2015, 04:54:28 am »

Might have been asked before but a few questions :

Wood : not floating?
I've been a bit curious as to why wood does not currently float , I understand it might be a code issue , but shouldnt it be pretty simple to implement togheter with a direction in which it floats in case its in a river?

Are small fishing boats planned? This could potentially be combined with other fishing tools such as nets, cages and so on for catching specific species.

I know there's been talk about harbors for ocean / trade rutes , but how about using them for basic fortress use both on surface and underground? Like a dock for those sea boats or a way to get from one specified point to another with a boat. Even though we might not get "ocean traders" at the moment , it would have been nice to be able to build a harbor / dock that could be interpretated by the world game so that other entities could be in connection with you as long as they also have harbors. Even though traders and diplomats wouldnt appear due to current limitations while playing ingame , at least on paper and when you are playing another fortress in another location.

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Dirst

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2532 on: September 29, 2015, 04:58:55 am »

Might have been asked before but a few questions :

Wood : not floating?
I've been a bit curious as to why wood does not currently float , I understand it might be a code issue , but shouldnt it be pretty simple to implement togheter with a direction in which it floats in case its in a river?

Are small fishing boats planned? This could potentially be combined with other fishing tools such as nets, cages and so on for catching specific species.

I know there's been talk about harbors for ocean / trade rutes , but how about using them for basic fortress use both on surface and underground? Like a dock for those sea boats or a way to get from one specified point to another with a boat. Even though we might not get "ocean traders" at the moment , it would have been nice to be able to build a harbor / dock that could be interpretated by the world game so that other entities could be in connection with you as long as they also have harbors. Even though traders and diplomats wouldnt appear due to current limitations while playing ingame , at least on paper and when you are playing another fortress in another location.
These questions would fit in better at the Suggestions Forum.
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(0.42 & 0.43) The Earth Strikes Back! v2.15 - Pay attention...  It's a mine!  It's-a not yours!
(0.42 & 0.43) Appearance Tweaks v1.03 - Tease those hippies about their pointy ears.
(0.42 & 0.43) Accessibility Utility v1.04 - Console tools to navigate the map

malvado

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2533 on: September 29, 2015, 05:05:08 am »

Might have been asked before but a few questions :

Wood : not floating?
I've been a bit curious as to why wood does not currently float , I understand it might be a code issue , but shouldnt it be pretty simple to implement togheter with a direction in which it floats in case its in a river?

Are small fishing boats planned? This could potentially be combined with other fishing tools such as nets, cages and so on for catching specific species.

I know there's been talk about harbors for ocean / trade rutes , but how about using them for basic fortress use both on surface and underground? Like a dock for those sea boats or a way to get from one specified point to another with a boat. Even though we might not get "ocean traders" at the moment , it would have been nice to be able to build a harbor / dock that could be interpretated by the world game so that other entities could be in connection with you as long as they also have harbors. Even though traders and diplomats wouldnt appear due to current limitations while playing ingame , at least on paper and when you are playing another fortress in another location.
These questions would fit in better at the Suggestions Forum.

I'm pretty sure they have been suggested allready , just wondering if Toady has said anything about this or if the wise one will talk about it...
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JesterHell696

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #2534 on: September 29, 2015, 07:06:12 am »

This was talked about in DF Talf. There was even some discussion about the ability to let large swath of time pass, and playing as your avatar kid. There was some talk about everything in fort mode being able to be done in adventure mode, and everything happening in adventure mode to be respected in fort mode.

Cool thanks I'll look though them again see if I can find it.

Edit: found it, its kind of funny I remember spending the whole day reading the DF talks back in 2012 when I first started playing and remembered the stuff about artifacts and magic but the adventure mode stuff was completely forgotten, probably because at the time I was only playing fortress mode and wasn't interested in adv mode.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2015, 09:25:16 am by JesterHell696 »
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"The long-term goal is to create a fantasy world simulator in which it is possible to take part in a rich history, occupying a variety of roles through the course of several games." Bay 12 DF development page

"My stance is that Dwarf Fortress is first and foremost a simulation and that balance is a secondary objective that is always secondary to it being a simulation while at the same time cannot be ignored completely." -Neonivek
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