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Author Topic: Future of the Fortress  (Read 1883288 times)

Quietust

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #300 on: August 08, 2014, 08:13:43 am »

Transferring saves to previous versions generally isn't a good idea
It's not just a bad idea - it's completely impossible because Dwarf Fortress won't even acknowledge that the savegame even exists because its version number is out of range. In order to even get it to load, you'd have to change the savegame's version number (in every single .DAT file), and then you'd run into all sorts of problems (such as outright crashes if the save format changed between those two versions, which happens quite frequently).

(or DF could simply refuse to recognize/load them)
In other words, this.
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greycat

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #301 on: August 08, 2014, 03:20:32 pm »

mostly the 'can't brew' issue

We're still waiting on a save that demonstrates an actual bug -- it's not clear whether one exists.  So far, all the cases have actually been a much older quirk.

That and barrels being tied up forever for hauling tasks.

That and that, and people installing DF2012 graphics packs and breaking their raws.

The main fort mode issues for me are "no invasions" (allegedly fixed in upcoming 0.40.07) and "sparring dwarves only wrestle" (which you can work around with danger rooms or micromanaging weapon drills).  Followed by a very distant third, "new plants are not all implemented".
« Last Edit: August 08, 2014, 03:25:10 pm by greycat »
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Footkerchief

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #302 on: August 08, 2014, 03:27:20 pm »

Followed by a very distant third, "new plants are not all implemented".

(report)
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greycat

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #303 on: August 08, 2014, 05:32:33 pm »

0007519: [Combat -- General] Sparring dwarves only wrestle (Toady One) - resolved.

:D
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Redzephyr01

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #304 on: August 09, 2014, 02:58:00 pm »

Will creatures that take up multiple tiles (other than wagons) ever be implemented?
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thvaz

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #305 on: August 09, 2014, 03:01:13 pm »

Will creatures that take up multiple tiles (other than wagons) ever be implemented?

Ever is a long time. So, probably yes.
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Footkerchief

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #306 on: August 09, 2014, 03:21:09 pm »

Will creatures that take up multiple tiles (other than wagons) ever be implemented?

Ever is a long time. So, probably yes.

While this answer is technically valid, there's a lot more information available:

Rainseeker:   Right. Well, I have a technical question here; 'How exactly long, wide and tall is a tile in Dwarf Fortress? Are they cubes?'; this is from Lonewolf.
Toady:   What the traditional answer is [is] that they're not so big that a dwarf doesn't have to crawl under another dwarf to get through a corridor but at the same time they're big enough to hold a thousand dragons as long as nine hundred and ninety nine of them are lying down. On the other hand it's a serious question because so much would ride on giving an answer; that's why I haven't so far. Because the second that you give an answer the game becomes constricted and you need things to make more sense; suddenly everything needs to make sense. I'm not ready to do that; I think there's something to be said for it - something to be said for nailing that down - but it would really kind of invite things like multi-tile creatures and stuff that I'm just not ready to do. There are some good things about multi-tile creatures; I think they'd be kind of cool. But path finding would need to be changed heavily, and there'd be other issues with them. Would they be too easy to kill for example by hiding off somewhere that they can't get to and shooting at them or whatever; so they'd need to be smart enough to avoid situations like that which might be difficult. So that's kind of one of the main problems - the large creatures - why I haven't established a number yet.

[...]

Capntastic:   Will you be able to climb things in the future, like climb a dragon and punch its brain?
Toady:   There's the issue with ... It's a question of multi-tile creatures partially - which is a difficult problem - but just the fact that there's the wrestling, and even without multi-tile creatures you've got things like groundhogs that can currently jump up and bite your eyes. That's one of the problems I'm having when I was doing my groundhog tests: twenty versus a guy with a knife, who wins? If the groundhog problem is solved, which it needs to be solved - not for this release most likely but at some point - then that means that that same thing will happen to you when you're fighting a giant creature. I think it would be cool to jump up on things, beyond just Shadow of the Colossus it's a common thing in Ray Harryhausen stuff and so on. So with the large creatures I think it'd be really cool to jump up on them and climb them and swing from them and so on. It wouldn't be as dramatic visually of course as Shadow of the Colossus but it certainly would be a lot of fun.

Just having a chase routine isn't sufficient -- if the multi-tile creature chases something and manages to get around a corner, it'll then be stuck or have some very rudimentary routines to try to get out, which would be anticlimactic.  I prefer the large creatures to have brains (or at least potential brains) than extra tiles.  The main issue is path finding and how it currently handles it via connected component numberings, which really only work perfectly for creatures that move like dwarves now.  Other creatures currently work mostly okay with them, but multi-tile creatures wouldn't work at all.  I don't think it would be impossible to change this, but I don't have and have not seen any feasible ideas for handling the issue.

There are also many Suggestions threads, of course.
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Dante

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #307 on: August 09, 2014, 07:23:11 pm »

Glad to see sparring's going to work properly again.

CaptainArchmage

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #308 on: August 09, 2014, 08:30:11 pm »

The new devlog suggests things are going to get a lot better:

Quote
Made unretired forts unhide fully, flowing from surface and all units
Required animal hauling labor for various jobs
Added new labors for hauling trade goods, pulling levers, removing constructions and hauling water
Made laborless building construct/destroy jobs take furniture hauling
Attached trap cleaning to clean labor
Added another adjustment to designation jobs to help them vs. paths that became bad

We should really get the ability to designate areas for cleaning, too. That would be a great change for the next version.
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palu

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #309 on: August 09, 2014, 09:43:50 pm »

Quote
Required animal hauling labor for various jobs
Added new labors for hauling trade goods, pulling levers, removing constructions and hauling water
Made laborless building construct/destroy jobs take furniture hauling
Attached trap cleaning to clean labor
Yes!
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crapabear

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #310 on: August 09, 2014, 09:53:50 pm »

I think you said at one point that you plan on implementing the ability to perform actions whilst falling in adventure mode. If my adventurer were in the process of falling down a deep vertical shaft and I removed a heavy object from my backpack and threw it, would the conservation of horizontal momentum be respected? In other words, would my falling adventurer be propelled in the opposite direction?
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Talvieno

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #311 on: August 09, 2014, 10:00:54 pm »

I think you said at one point that you plan on implementing the ability to perform actions whilst falling in adventure mode. If my adventurer were in the process of falling down a deep vertical shaft and I removed a heavy object from my backpack and threw it, would the conservation of horizontal momentum be respected? In other words, would my falling adventurer be propelled in the opposite direction?
I think that would be ridiculously difficult to do on a set of tiles like DF does, not to mention that the effect would be imperceptibly small anyway.
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Putnam

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #312 on: August 09, 2014, 10:09:53 pm »

Nethack does it.

Talvieno

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #313 on: August 09, 2014, 10:11:03 pm »

Nethack does it.
really... Huh. Color me impressed. Still haven't seen it in DF, though, even on a horizontal plane. Throwing a blue whale does nothing towards pushing you in the opposite direction.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2014, 10:18:30 pm by Talvieno »
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Footkerchief

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Re: Future of the Fortress
« Reply #314 on: August 09, 2014, 10:45:20 pm »

I think you said at one point that you plan on implementing the ability to perform actions whilst falling in adventure mode. If my adventurer were in the process of falling down a deep vertical shaft and I removed a heavy object from my backpack and threw it, would the conservation of horizontal momentum be respected? In other words, would my falling adventurer be propelled in the opposite direction?

I think it can be safely assumed that the first implementation of mid-fall actions will not include conservation of momentum.
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